Results 61 - 80 of 126
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Results from: Notes Author: atdcross Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
61 | Paul had problems? No one acts good? | Matt 11:28 | atdcross | 165073 | ||
I'm sorry, Doc, but I do not understand your comment. | ||||||
62 | Paul had problems? No one acts good? | Matt 11:28 | atdcross | 165040 | ||
Although I may inadvertently have not fully quoted the words of Rom 6:11, the intent of the apostle’s meaning is clear: we are to consider ourselves dead to son because we are dead to sin. This is the point he stresses in Romans 6:1-14 and 7:1-6. My “misquote” did not misrepresent the apostle’s meaning. No denial of a “sin nature” has been suggested. What is admitted throughout Romans 6-8 is that we have the power to overcome the “sin nature” and not be defeated by it; it is not inevitable that we commit sin because of enabling grace. Again, my position is that Rom 7:25 is not descriptive of the apostle’s experience as a believer. To interpret it as such would contradict Paul’s emphatic and implicitly experiential summation that “sin shall not be your master” 6:11-14). It would also contradict his self-appraisal as one who is blameless and in possession of a clear conscience before God. One who is “a slave to sin” or in the habit of practicing “every kind of covetous desire” cannot rightly make such a claim. Note: If 7:25 is reflective of Paul’s experience, (1) it would blatantly contradict his experiential declaration in 8:9: “You, however, are not controlled by the sinful nature…”, and (2) Paul’s end would be only death since he asserts that those who are enslaved to sin – “live according to the sinful nature” – will die (8:13). I see no contradiction between 1 Jn 1:8-10 and 3:9.It seems to me that the apostle is declaring not a mere “overcoming [of] his reluctance” or a mere “laying hold of His willingness” but the actual and experiential overcoming of sin by means of our identification with the death of Christ In his death we died to sin, its guilt and power; in his life we live to righteousness by his cleansing of the conscience through forgiveness and the enablement of grace to obey the will of God. |
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63 | Paul had problems? No one acts good? | Matt 11:28 | atdcross | 165039 | ||
As I stated, it seems to me that the apostle is using the first person in Romans 7 as a literary device to make the point that, as believers, we are not enslaved to sin through the Law. Sin need no longer be a problem. We have been given the grace (enablement) to overcome sin at every turn. True, there may be a struggle with the impulses of sin but we can gain and maintain the victory at every turn; we are not in the position where what we hate to do we do or where the good we want to do we don’t do. Such is a description of the sinner and not the saint, the unbeliever and not the believer. Luke 11:13 - As I read the passage, it does not seem to me that your interpretation is warranted. Jesus is not saying that the gifts others give are evil gifts while the gifts he gives are good. He is saying that in view of the fact, borne out by experience, that evil people can and do give good gifts to others, it is certain that God, who is not evil but absolutely good, will give good gifts to his children. An unbelieving father gives his daughter a gift certificate to Old Navy for her birthday to buy clothes she needs. Is that an evil gift, in and of itself, to God? “Sinful, fallen humans” are capable and actually do give good gifts and act in morally good ways towards others. The evil is not in the act of giving what is good but in it’s being an act done apart from relationship with God. Phil 3:4-6 - Yes, the apostle is referring to before his conversion and that is my point. With reference to himself he makes no assertions of having sinned against God or having a problem obeying the law as you contend he does in Romans 7. In the apostle’s self-analysis, he declares he is, with specific reference to the Torah, blameless; he does not see himself as one who had problems carrying out the letter of the law; Paul did not view himself as one who disobeyed Torah. Verses 7 and 8 emphasize the point I am trying to make. What did the apostle count as rubbish? “Every kind of covetous desire” (Rom 7:8)? No. It seems to me, as the context shows, that Paul counted as rubbish the righteousness he had established under Torah/Law. |
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64 | Paul had problems? No one acts good? | Matt 11:28 | atdcross | 165038 | ||
Unfortunately, Doc,you do not correctly understand. | ||||||
65 | Paul had problems? No one acts good? | Matt 11:28 | atdcross | 164986 | ||
Quick note. Unfortunately, I may have not been clear, which resulted in your misunderstanding of what I meant by my statement regarding inspiration. The point I attempted to make was that, in agreement with you, "only the writers of the Bible itself were inspired by the Holy Spirit." Therefore, I seek the illumination that comes from the Spirit. Although, admittedly, others of greater knowledge may be of help, they are not necessarily correct (even if held for 2,000 years). Where I perceive that the Bible teaches differently from what they espouse, my obligation is to remain under what I believe the Spirit is teaching me. In any case, with all due respect and I hope you will not take offense, your comments to me here are irrelevant - at least to me - because it offers no further insight to what is specifically being discussed. |
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66 | Paul had problems? No one acts good? | Matt 11:28 | atdcross | 164953 | ||
Hello Doc, Out of curiosity, where elsewhere other than in this forum have I expressed my views of Romans 7? No one’s experience in particular is being considered. Paul, as I see it, is just using the first person as a literary device to get his point across, which is the contrast between life under the law (which is not reflective at all of the apostle’s experience as a believer in Christ) and life under grace or “in the new way of the Spirit” (Rom 7:6). Please note that your reference to what I write is actually a quote Coffman’s Commentary as indicated. In any case, if Rom 7 demonstrates the apostle’s experience then as a Christian he is: 1. Dead in sin, v.9. 2. Deceived, v.11. 3. Unspiritual, v.14. 4. Enslaved to sin, v.14,25. 5. Without power to do the good, v.17f. 6. Continually does evil, v.19. 7. Imprisoned by “the law of sin”, v.23. Are these descriptive of a believer? Of Paul as he describes himself? As I mentioned before, unless the persons you mentioned interpreted the Bible for “2,000 years of accumulated understanding” under the inspiration of the Spirit, I am not obligated to agree with them. They certainly cannot be right in every point as they seem to disagree with each other in many. Nor, by the way, am I required to "measure up" to them. Without argument, they may hold the better place, nevertheless, however "better", my obligation is to have a clear conscience before God not men; I am to live according to that wisdom God grants to me, however faulty or lacking others perceive it to be (although, admittedly, any actual fault or lack is not due to God's giving but to my receiving). My apologies, but I do not understand what you are requiring I “elucidate”. |
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67 | explain the doctrine of predistination | Rom 9:13 | atdcross | 164952 | ||
To say that one must be "born again" before he can believe seems to be inconsistent, at least to me, with what the Bible explicitly states: "that whosoever believes...should have eternal life." (Jn 3:16; cf. 1 Jn 5:1). | ||||||
68 | Paul had problems? No one acts good? | Matt 11:28 | atdcross | 164730 | ||
Romans 7 is, I believe, not descriptive of any personal experience before or after conversion. 1 John 1:8-10 is not intended as descriptive of anyone's personal problems in relation to sin. These verses seem to combat some heretical teachings at the time related to claims of being sinless or absolute perfection. Regarding your surprise at my suggestion, after stating there are no inherent contradictions in the Bible, you claim, “the verses you quote refer to man's idea of what is good.” The verses I quoted were the words of Jesus (Matt 7:11; Luke 11:13), therefore, making the implication that Jesus statements here are merely “man’s idea.” I assumed you did not realize it and I only sought clarity in your position. Luke 11:13 stress the point of my argument. Jesus is affirming that even evil people can do a good deed. In general we may not disagree, however, specifically I disagree that the interpretation of Romans 7 is descriptive of the apostle’s personal experience. (1) To the question, “No one acts good”? the answer is that evil people to commit acts that are in and of themselves morally good. (2) To the question, “Paul had problems?” (in relation to Romans 7), the answer is that the apostle claimed to have led a blameless life before and after conversion (Phil 3:4-6; Acts 24:16). The apostle had no such struggle with sin as described in Romans 7:14 or 8:8. "Paul's experience as a Christian is the last thing that could be considered as the topic here. 'I am carnal, sold under sin'...To refer these words to Paul's status as a Christian, or to the status of any other Christian, is to torture the word of God...Paul had just finished saying that Christians are 'dead to sin' and 'alive unto God' in Christ Jesus (Romans 6:11); and to apply these words to Christians is to contradict what had just been stated" (Coffman). |
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69 | Paul had problems? No one acts good? | Matt 11:28 | atdcross | 164694 | ||
Hie Ebrain, I did not mean the apostle is describing his experience before his conversion. I said, “I do not think Romans 7 is reflective of his personal experience,” which includes both before and after conversion. My apologies if I did not make that clear. When you say, “the verses you quote refer to man's idea of what is good,” are you suggesting that Jesus has a wrong idea of what is good or that what he said is not divinely inspired? Mark 10:17-18 – Jesus is affirming God’s character as good in opposition to sinful man. Romans 3:10-12; Psalm 14:1-3 – These verses affirm all men are sinful. Psalm 53:1-3 – Again, man’s sinfulness is affirmed. However, although acknowledging man’s sinfulness, none of the verses above (except for Ps 53:3 as I read it from the NIV) deny that man can commit a morally good act. It is seen in experience that a sinner can perform a morally good act. The problem is that however morally good the act is, God does not accept it as good and, therefore, the good act is a bad act (Isa 64:6; Jer 2:22). Ps 53:3 must also affirm this since it cannot be denied that men can and do perform mrally good acts. The main point of all the verses cited show that man is sinful; that although he may do what is good and right, they are acts unacceptable before God because they are performed apart from faith and life in God. I am not denying man is sinful. I am saying that man as a siner is able to perform good acts, although they are unacceptable to God. |
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70 | Paul had problems? No one acts good? | Matt 11:28 | atdcross | 164593 | ||
Hi Ebrain, 1. I would think whether being unable to do good is your problem or mine is not the issue. What is at issue is the question of whether or not the apostle Paul was describing his experience as a believer in Christ. With reference to vs.6, which shows the contrast Paul is making, that is, between the "newness of the Spirit" and the "oldness of the letter," I do not think Romans 7 is reflective of his personal experience. 2. Even sinners can act morally virtuous. I do not think that Jesus meant literally that one cannot do any good act apart from Him (Matt 7:11; Luke 11:13). What he does mean is that we cannot perform any act that is acceptable before God apart from Him, irrespective of how good, sincere, or loving the motive may be. I do not think there is any real difference between us on this issue, only a different perspective or way to look at it. |
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71 | did Jesus die for our sins or sickness | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 164084 | ||
I'm laughing, Mark, because of my typograhical error. I should have typed, "I apologize, Mark, that YOUR view of MY position as being erroneous is Biblically untenable to my mind." Good night, buddy... |
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72 | did Jesus die for our sins or sickness | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 164083 | ||
Mark...this is Mark, right? No BradK...right? Oh, yeah...the bottom is signed Mark...so I am responding to Mark...anyway... Regarding my statement in John 11:3-4, you failed to mention that I stated I interpreted the text in relation to other verses and the revelation of God’s character therein. In any case, I am not on this board to prove my point but merely to share the things Father has spoken to me about (Rom 14:22). I apologize, Mark, that my view of your position is Biblically untenable to my mind. |
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73 | did Jesus die for our sins or sickness | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 164081 | ||
Oops #2, aagh! my posting (#164077) should have been directed to BradK and not Mark, sorry (my left eye got crossed with my right eye)...sorry, Mark... | ||||||
74 | did Jesus die for our sins or sickness | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 164077 | ||
Mark, If I have given you the impression that I am arguing with you, that was not my intention and I apologize for the anything I have stated that may have sounded argumentative. My goal on these boards is not to try a prove that my views are correct and others are wrong but just to share how I believe God has spoken to me and be encouraged with how god has spoken to others. |
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75 | did Jesus die for our sins or sickness | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 164075 | ||
I appreciate your concern in your attempts to correct what you believe is erroneous doctrine. However, with all due respect and as much as I would like to agree in order to preserve a common viewpoint, I am unable to on the basis of your judgment regarding what does or does not agree with scripture. Advocates of the Watchtower would advise me the same way upon the basis of what they judge to be divine revelation. However, I am responsible to hear God and act according to the dictates of my conscience before him. If I have erred, I trust his voice will tell me where I have gone wrong (it would not be the first time). In the meantime, we (Father and I) discuss the issue from time to time and seem to be basically on the same page for now. As such, it seems my view does not so much conflict with the Bible as it seems to do with your judgment of what is a correct understanding of it. In any case, thank you for the advice. |
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76 | did Jesus die for our sins or sickness | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 164063 | ||
Hello Mark, John 11:3-4: I understand what is stated but it is the intended meaning that is important and, on the basis of other verses and God’s revealed character (at least, to me), what is for the glory of God is not the sickness but the healing. The emphasis is on the healing/resurrection of Lazarus, not his sickness/death (cf. v.40-42). One comments that Jesus “does not connect his ministry to the sickness by affirming ‘that the Son of God may be glorified by it’…Jesus will be glorified when he raises Lazarus from the grave because of the manifestation of His omnipotent power as deity.” Another says, the “...the glory of God is...his activity.” In John 9, Jesus dismisses the question as irrelevant. The “works of God” are not revealed in the man’s malady but in Jesus’ power to heal. Eph 2:5 – That the work of the Cross for salvation is complete and final does not necessarily mean that our experience is also. Although we have the fullness of Christ in us, there are moments where we are apt(not necessarily) to stumble. Also, “bad things” do occur against God’s will (Luke 13:34). Whether or not there is purpose in suffering is not the focus my point. My point is that suffering is not Father’s will or intention for his children (Jer 29:11). Sickness, in particular, has no purpose at all except to disrupt God’s will for us. My general reading of the Bible does not see suffering or sickness itself as good, especially good for God’s children (or anyone else). Suffering and sickness are enemies of God and must be defeated and overcome. Suffering does not necessarily result in blessing; therefore, the blessing is not in the suffering/sickness but in overcoming it. And although suffering is bad and not God’s intention, suffering for the sake of Christ is a reality not to be denied and something to embrace for the purpose of overcoming the evil world and exhibiting Jesus Lordship over all. Sometimes the falsity of a doctrine is not so much in the teaching itself as in the spirit one approaches and presents it to others. |
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77 | God being lonely? | Mal 4:2 | atdcross | 164041 | ||
My apologies. I had absentmindedly responded under your post. I meant to answer Greekbabe and was just adding a different perspective (not intended as a disagreement from what you stated) for Greek's consideration. Regarding the "verses", it was just my own spin on the poem being discussed. |
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78 | did Jesus die for our sins or sickness | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 164029 | ||
CDBJ, I apologize that this subject has caused you to be sick and will refrain from discussing it with you so as not to aggravate your illness. With your permission, I will pray that God heals you from getting sick any further and delivers you from hypertension. Your friend... |
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79 | God being lonely? | Mal 4:2 | atdcross | 164027 | ||
The last book in the Hebrew canon is 2 Chronicles wherein some glimmer of hope is given after seventy years of prophesied Israel's deportation and desolation in the land. But with that hope came 400 years of silence; no prophets arose, no judges arose. The poem is sad and although I cannot approve of its theological implications, that it portrays, however faulty, a feeling of divine loneliness for man's fellowship that is real cannot be altogether ignored; not that God needs us but he does desire us. So strong is that desire that it verges, from a human perspective, on need; such a divine longing that he sacrificed his most valued intimate in order to gain sinful men and women. Although, I'm not sure I understand the question, I would venture to say that the God characterized in this poem is foreign to Biblical revelation. If anything, it reflects the poets assumption that God is as lonely as he is and characterizes, not God, but the poets own loneliness. Allow me to switch the poem around: I am Man - "Without one friend, Alone in my impurity Until I'm dead. Above me divine love Like eagles freely soar - But I am only Man - Nailed to the floor. Spring! Life is love! (Although this love is phoney!) Better is Human love Than God's who left me lonely." |
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80 | did Jesus die for our sins or sickness | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 164024 | ||
Hi Brad, Thanks for discussing the issue with the goal of enhancing understanding rather than prove a point. I hope my way of addressing the issue has exhibited the same temper as you have. |
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