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Results from: Notes Author: atdcross Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Does my view violate context or grammer? | Gen 27:33 | atdcross | 185104 | ||
Hi Tim! You said that the emphasis of Heb 12:17 is to "a decision that cannot be changed." I agree. That was my jist, which I may not have made clear. And I added that it has reference ultimately to God, that is (as I stated in point #2), "Isaac's refusal to change it [the blessing] was in recognition of God's mind in the matter." |
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2 | Are these essentials for Salvation? | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 167633 | ||
WOS, In the first place, what gives you the notion that I am "playing"? You asked, "Or are you suggesting that there is repentance unto life before regeneration?" Your question is confusing because regeneration is the act of God imparting new life. Therefore, you are asking if "repentance unto life" (i.e. the repentance that leads to new life) is before new life (regeneration). My question is, how can repentance be "unto life" if the life is already imparted before repentance is acted upon? Should it not rather be phrased, "regeneration unto repentance"? In the second place, my point is what repentance is - how it is Biblically defined - which is not different in activity between the believer and the unbeliever. That is, repentance is turning in obedience to God. There need be no denial that sorrow and a change of mind is involved but the change from disobedience to obedience is necessary in order for repentance to be genuine. Example. An unbeliever is in disobedience to God. What God requires of him is that he cease from sinning and turn to Him in faith or, if you'd rather, he turn to God in faith and cease from sinning. A believer may be involved in sin. What does God require of Him. God requires the believer to also to cease from sinning and turn to Him in faith or, if you'd rather, he turn to God in faith and cease from sinning. That the former act of repentance may lead to salvation and the latter to restored fellowship is immaterial with respect to how the word "repentance" is understood. In the third place, I am not discussing how repentance works upon or in the believer or unbeliever, whether or not God plays a part in it, or its relation with, if any, regeneration; I am only stating what it is (as far as I understand it in the Bible). In the fourth place, I do not think "repentance requires faith" for there are those who may be truely repentant for their wrongdoing, nevertheless, do not turn to Christ in faith for their salvation. In extreme cases, you may meet a recovering alcoholic or a drug addict who quit their respective addictive behavior for one reason or another and are leading productive, as far as worldly values are concerned, lives. However, faith (if it is to be genuine and result in God's salvation) necessarily requires repentance. |
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3 | Are these essentials for Salvation? | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 167631 | ||
Lionheart, I cited the incorrect posting for your review. The correct post is ID#167082. Some verses are cited to support my view regarding repentance. My apologies. Also, I can agree with your comment, “The unbeliever will never [repent] till they come to Jesus Christ with a saving faith, which goes way beyond worldly sorrow” and add only that “saving faith” involves repentance, which, in turn, may or may not involve sorrow (godly or otherwise, at least, at the time of conversion) but necessarily involves obedience to God. I say that it may involve sorrow bot not necessarily based upon my own conversion experience. When I came to Christ, I did not have a sorrow for sin; all I was only aware of a strong desire to know God and realized it is only through the Cross of Christ that God is known and experienced. (Just as an aside, I was not even aware that I possessed eternal life until some weeks after my conversion). |
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4 | Are these essentials for Salvation? | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 167592 | ||
I don't understand the question. It seems as if you are asking, "Are you suggesting that there is repentance unto regeneration before regeneration?" or, "Are you suggesting that there is repentance unto salvation before salvation?" |
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5 | Are these essentials for Salvation? | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 167580 | ||
See my response to Samantha, #167578. | ||||||
6 | Are these essentials for Salvation? | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 167578 | ||
It seems there is a misunderstanding. I am suggesting that there is a difference between true an false repentance; there is no difference between what is required from believer or unbeliever with respect to the act of repentance. |
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7 | Are these essentials for Salvation? | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 167577 | ||
True repentance does not stop with sorrow. True repentance is not just sorrow for sin; it may begin with sorrow but it ends in obedience. Sorrow without obedience is not repentance. No matter how much one grieves at being “wretched”, if there is only sorrow but no follow-up with obedience, their repentance is false. Out of all the quotes you cited, Spurgeon’s reflects Biblical repentance; that is, to “show...earnest grieve By doing so no more.” |
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8 | Are these essentials for Salvation? | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 167510 | ||
Hi CDBJ I don't see in the Bible the act of repentance is different for the unbeliever in relation to the believer, at least, that is not how I read it in the Bible. For the believer and the unbeliever, Biblical and genuine repentance involves a turn from disobedience to obedience towards God. Although 1 Jn 1:9 is written to believers, it does not demand that it be limited to believers; if an unbeliever confesses his sin and turns from it, God is still "just and may be trusted to forgive our sins and cleanse us from every kind of wrongdoing" (NRSV). If one is under the control of the, what you call, "sin nature", there is cause to question their salvation. There is no such thing as a believer being enslaved by the "sinful nature" (Rom 8:7, NRSV). That many misinterpret Rev 3:20 is no reason to suppose that the meaning and act of repentance is different between believer and unbeliever. |
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9 | Are these essentials for Salvation? | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 167494 | ||
I don not think it is for the "unbliever" alone. The life of a Christian is a life of faith and repentance; that is, the life of continual trust and changing directions where such change is required. I do not think one stops practicing repentance when required just after he becomes a believer. |
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10 | Are these essentials for Salvation? | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 167381 | ||
It seems what you suggest falls short of true repentance, at least, as I read it from the Bible (see verses #167082). Genuine repentance requires obedience for it to be real. Godly repentance assumes the obedience has been rendered. True repentance does involve emotional and volitional changes as you suggested. That voltional change is deciding to cease being disobedient to God and being obedient; without "fruits of repentance" there is no genuine repentance. No one suggested it is a one time event and because one may continually fall into a specific sin, that in itself does nto mean there is no repentance. I don't understand your comment, "If obedience is repentance then there is no need for repentance once we do repent because we are obedient and you and I both know that is not the case". Repentance assumes disobedience. And, as I stated, maybe repentance is not obedience but it's genuiness of repentance is demonstarted through obedience. As I stated earlier, To "believe with your heart" is to repent; obedience to God is the "bringing of fruit worthy of repentance". |
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11 | Are these essentials for Salvation? | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 167305 | ||
Hi WOS. I was only briefly describing what repentence is, not how it works. "Grace and mercy" I do not think define repentence but that is not to say it is found without God's activity. |
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12 | Essentials, where is the proof? | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 167209 | ||
Justme, Your concern is valid. I was wrong to make such a remark. Please accept my apology. |
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13 | Essentials, where is the proof? | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 167170 | ||
Tim, As per Vincent's quote: "More correctly as Rev., 'obeyeth not'; disbelief is regarded in its active manifestation, disobedience." As such, and warranted with other language reference works, it seems to me that there is a distinction between the Greek words in question with respect to John 3:36. As such, from your comment, it seems that you disagree. No problem; I just wanted clarification. Thanks. |
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14 | Essentials, where is the proof? | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 167152 | ||
Hi Tim. Does that mean you think my position is warranted? |
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15 | How was the sin nature really created? | Matt 12:31 | atdcross | 167151 | ||
Hi Kay, I was not offended at all by your request for an educated answer. My concern was that you might be not put off by one who is not a scholar. Glad to know such a concern was unwarranted and that I could be of some little help. You made my day! | ||||||
16 | Essentials, where is the proof? | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 167136 | ||
Hi Justme, 1. This thinking is not mine but James'. 2. Luther may have gotten it right but, over the years, this idea of "salvation by faith alone" went too far (or maybe Luther went too far to the other extreme). I cannot say actually what is what as far as this is concerned. All I can say is that, for the most part, what I see as Biblical faith is not being expounded correctly by theologians and pastors of today. I heartily agree, "Grace is freely given, but never without a cost." |
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17 | Repent or believe, which is first? | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 167135 | ||
You may suggest an "order" but I do not see one in the Bible with reference to our discussion. | ||||||
18 | Essentials, where is the proof? | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 167134 | ||
Good day Tim, Not being familiar with the Greek of the NT, I am forced to rely on scholars. In the first place, looking at the Strong's, I notice that in John 3:36, I notice: 1. The Greek word for the first instance of "believeth" (KJV) is a different Greek word from its use in the second instance for "believeth" (KJV). 2. The Greek word used in 3:12,18 is the same as that used in the first instance in v.36, which, again, is different from the second instance, "believeth" (KJV). 3. Some of the popular and more accurate translations have "disobey" (RSV, NASV, TEV, cf. less popular known, Moffatt, Revised English Bible). In the second place, Vincent states, "More correctly as Rev., 'obeyeth not'. disbelief is regarded in its active manifestation, disobedience" (Word Studies; cf. Linguistic/Exegetical Key to the Greek NT; Robertson Word Pictures). Mayfield agrees that "he who does not obey" is the "better translation" and comments, "The opposite of faith is actually 'refusal to obey'" (Beacon Bible Commentary; cf. "The Gospel an Epistles of John", F.F. Bruce). Notice that Michaels writes, "The last verse of the chapter brings the reader back to the point reached in verses 18-21" (NIBC), which is what I suggested (cf. EBC). What Leon Morris asserts in his NICNT commentary on John is very instructive - as is also his footnote with reference to the BAGD - and answers directly to your asertion that the word translated as "disobey" can also be translated as "not believe." In conclusion, I do not go along with your suggestion because: 1. (a) Words are different. To be more accurate in translation, I will go along with the TEV. (b) Context does not demand what you assert but rather suggests, especially with vs. 16-21, that "disobeys" is the better translation of the Greek word. 2. The commentaries agree that the word translated "disobey" (TEV) emphasizes the activity of faith (something that I attempted to point out but they said it better). To me, it seems this emphasis is lost if translated merely as "disbelieves". 3. The contrast made in vs.12,18 is that of believing and disobedience when seen in its context, especially in light of vs.19-21. Their condemnation is "because their deeds were evil." In conclusion, if disobedience is the activity of unbelief, it seems to me that repentance - a truning to obedience - is, as I have suggested, the activity of faith. If your translation be insisted on, it should be with the understanding that an activity is emphasized, that is, the activity of diobedience. |
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19 | Are these essentials for Salvation? | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 167097 | ||
No. I said, "To 'believe with your heart' is to repent." I do not mean that repentance and belief (faith) are synonomous but that true faith requires repentance. Without faith in God there is no repentance that leads to salvation. However, repentance is of no value to the saving of one's soul without faith. Many people repent of that evil they may have done but their repentance, instead of directing it with faith in God, merely reform their lifestyle. Change in lifestyle alone offers nothing if not mixed with faith (Rom 10:3). I offer some Bible verses in post ID# 167082. |
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20 | Are these essentials for Salvation? | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 167082 | ||
Matt 3:2 - the first call of the Gospel; 3:8; Mark 1:5 - "repent and believe"; Luke 3:3; 13:3; 5:32; Acts 3:19; 26:20; 2 Cor 7:9-10; 2 Pet 3:9; Rev 9:20-21; 16:9. | ||||||
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