Results 61 - 80 of 138
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Results from: Notes Author: There Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
61 | Who is Jesus? | Matt 24:28 | There | 23843 | ||
The Knights Templar was a front organization for the "Priory of Sion". In 1979 Mr. Pierre Plantard de Saint-Clair, who was (and may still be) the present Secretary General of the Priory of Sion, was interviewed in Paris, France by reporters from BBC. When asked the question, "Does the Priory of Sion possess the treasures of the ancient Jewish Temple?", he said, "Yes". He added, "They will be returned to Jerusalem when the time is right." (Holy Blood, p. 225) Hope you all had a blessed Thanksgiving! |
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62 | Are they the same spirit? | Gen 1:1 | There | 23834 | ||
Hello Johnny, I was raised Catholic. And as an adult, one of the things I began wondering about after reading the Bible was this "queen of heaven" mentioned in Jeremiah. I know that Ishtar evolved from a moon goddess to a goddess that had many other attributes over the centuries. And I wondered if she (demonic spirit) had continued to evolve (change her modus operandi or goddess image) as was needed to infiltrate the church. I do NOT think the apparition is the real Mary who gave birth to the true Messiah. But this appartition does claim to be her -- even though she is very different than the real Mary. The apparition claims to be sinless (her claim to her Immaculate Conception Feb. 11, 1858), but the real Mary knew she was a sinner and in need of a Savior. Luke 1:46-47 "And Mary said: 'My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior...". She (apparition) also makes claims of having a son who she refers to as Jesus, except that her Jesus is not the only means to salvation. She said on May 13, 1917 "...my Immaculate Heart which will be your refuge and the way that will lead you to God." And on December 26, 1957 "God's last means of salvation is through me. And if you despise and repulse this means, there won't be any forgiveness of sin which the Gospel calls the sin against the Holy Spirit." And on October 13, 1973 she stated "Those who place their confidence in me will be saved." And in 1984 "Even in the Second Coming, the son will come to you through his mother." And in 1986 "God has sent me to earth to save you." In August 1987 her son said "He who honors her honors me. He who denies her denies me." In 1958 he said "Everyone should have a picture of Jesus as Divine Mercy. I promise that the soul that will venerate this image will not perish." And in 1991 when he again "appeared" with his mother, he said, "Fortunate is he who lives in the brilliance of the image of Jesus of Mercy, for the just hand of God will never reach him. For I am your Jesus of Mercy." I cannot name the book that those quotes came from, because I read it years ago. I do remember the book was authorized for Catholics though, and I was given it by a Catholic friend. At the time I copied many of the quotes and also the scriptures that contradicted the appartitions' statements. And I think they (both apparitions) are satanic beings, attempting to lead people away from the salvation that only comes through God's real Son. http://www.fatima.org/plan.html: "Our Lady's Peace Plan is founded on three simple, but powerful requests. The first is a request for prayer, most particularly the Holy Rosary and the devotion of the Brown Scapular. The second calls for us to make reparation for the sins and outrages perpetrated against God's Grace and blasphemies against the Holy Hearts of Jesus and Mary. The third request is for consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, both on a personal basis and, publicly, that of Russia by the Pope and all the world's bishops." The apparition waited until the 1300's before she made the claim to her listeners to be the "queen of heaven", and it was later incorporated into church teaching. Oh by the way, something else both Ishtar and the appartition have in common is their claim that they were virgins at the time of the conception of their offspring, and were perpetual virgins thereafter. And below is something from a Catholic website http://www.udayton.edu/maryslash. Below is a partial "answer" to the question "What is the meaning of the crescent moon that Mary is sometimes pictured standing upon?" "A: The so called Luna, half moon, ...is a sign of fertility, related to life and death, and thus a popular symbol in many religions. It pinpoints changing seasons, ebb and tide (and related inundations as harbingers of fertility), and the feminine menstrual cycle. The half moon was the attribute of Luna and more specifically of Selene. It was later transferred to Diana (Artemis), offspring of the earth mother, and known not only as virgin but also as protectress of the newborn and symbol of fertility in her own right. ... There exists, beginning around 1348, a type of Marian sculpture called Madonna standing on the crescent moon ... It sometimes opposes -- in representations of the Platytera -- the sun born from Mary and the human race in need of salvation (moon) (1312). The crescent moon is used in representations of Mary's miraculous conception and birth. The crescent appears under Mary's feet in paintings of the Assumption (Meister of the Luzien-Legende, 1485) and signifies her glory and victory over time and space. The most important application of the moon symbol occurred in representations of the Immaculate Conception." I think there are many similarities between the two. God bless. |
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63 | "queen of heaven"? | Gen 1:1 | There | 23767 | ||
Thanks to both you Nolan and Jlpangilinan. I wondered about her since Ishtar/Inanna was known as the "queen of heaven and earth". (Inanna was the name the Sumerians used for this goddess.) | ||||||
64 | Why? | Exodus | There | 23727 | ||
That was always my assumption too and for the same reasons... until someone pointed out to me that it doesn't say that Zipporah died. I mean, when Sarah died, we were told she died, and later Abraham married Keturah. We know that Isaac also was of faith, but had more than one wife at the same time, and others too. But anyway, it doesn't say that Zipporah died before Moses married the Egyptian woman, and by the way Zipporah was not Egyptian (Cushite). She was a Midianite (a descendant of Midian (Midyan) who was a son of Abraham and Keturah). Something that never made sense though since I used to think Zipporah was the Egyptian woman, was why it took Aaron and Miriam so long to get peeved at Moses for marrying her. I thought that by the time two years had passed, they should have figured out how to get along with one another. Something else you brought up though. Have you noticed that in Leviticus 18 where it talks about the laws of sexual morality, that verse 18 states: (18) Nor shall you take a woman as a rival to her sister, to uncover her nakedness while the other is alive. The KJV states it this way: (18) Neither shall thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time. Would one sister be a rival to the other if the first was divorced from the husband?? I'm not so sure that is what it's talking about. I think it's saying that a man shouldn't marry his wife's sister while his wife is still alive. But it doesn't say that the man cannot have a second wife as long as she isn't a close relative nor his wife's sister. Reminds me of the rivalry between Leah and Rachel. A reference for "uncover their nakedness" as a reference to marriage is Leviticus 20:14 "If a man marries a woman and her mother... They shall be burned with fire." which is the penalty for breaking the Lord's command in Leviticus 18:17 "You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter...". Just some thoughts. |
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65 | I CAME TO FULFILL THE LAW | Matt 5:17 | There | 23422 | ||
No problem Searcher. I should have explained what I meant in that first post. I'm the one who should be asking forgiveness... Thank you for the patience!! |
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66 | I CAME TO FULFILL THE LAW | Matt 5:17 | There | 23374 | ||
Hi Joe, You said: Just this last week, God used James 1:19-20 to convict me of some harsh attitudes I have had toward a very problematic class that I am teaching this year. It was the Holy Spirit at work, but he used law to do it. That is exactly my point. It was the Holy Spirit at work. He used the written word, but it was the Holy Spirit that "taught" you something. If you were to only use human understanding, you would have gotten exactly what an unbeliever would get out of it. But you gained understanding through the working of the Holy Spirit. As to your challenge, if you include the law of love toward God and others... of course there is none. If you ONLY adhere to the words written on the page, then there are many things that could be named. Think about it. If something as simple as "thou shalt not murder" needed to be explained by Jesus as to the other implications in that command, do you think all the others are totally self explanatory without the teaching of the Holy Spirit? God bless. |
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67 | I CAME TO FULFILL THE LAW | Matt 5:17 | There | 23370 | ||
I wish I could "take that post back". LOL Please see my post to "Lionstrong, aka LooseCannon" on Sunday, Nov. 18th. I tried to explain there what I actually meant. God bless. | ||||||
68 | I CAME TO FULFILL THE LAW | Matt 5:17 | There | 23348 | ||
You said: We are not sure who exactly is the author of Hebrews. True. In older manuscripts found since the KJ translation was made, it's author isn't named. But the Eastern Church accepted its Pauline authorship from the beginning. |
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69 | I CAME TO FULFILL THE LAW | Matt 5:17 | There | 23345 | ||
And before I get myself in trouble I better add that the Torah included "teachings" that do not pertain to us today. I know we all know that, but I didn't mention it in that last post and thought I better clarify. The law God wants to write on our hearts has to do with His moral law (the law of love) -- of which there are many, many more than TEN. | ||||||
70 | I CAME TO FULFILL THE LAW | Matt 5:17 | There | 23344 | ||
Hi Joe, I disagree that the "rest" spoken of in Hebrews is a future event. I think that when we "rest" in Jesus we cease from our works and instead do the works of the Father. And again, I think that is why it states "For we who have believed do enter that rest..." I do not mean that God's law is the Mosaic Covenant. God's law is everlasting. The Mosaic Covenant became obsolete and we are under the New Covenant. It states that the Torah (instructions and teachings of God, law of God) was given so man would recognize his sinfulness, and then what?? God's intent was always the same. He wanted man to come to Him in repentance, and listen to His voice -- learn from Him. God was willing to speak to the children of Isreal in a very real way, but because of their fear they pleaded to have God speak to them through Moses. So instead of listening to God's voice (teaching and instruction - law), they had the written Torah. Anyone who became a member of Judaism was required to conform to it's teachings. Under the New Covenant, we who believe are not "under" the written Torah, but under our Teacher -- the Holy Spirit of God. And because we are "under" Him... we are under His authority and therefore we must obey His commands to us. God's laws have not changed, but there is a major difference between human understanding and God's understanding of those "laws" that were written in the Torah. As believers we have access to God's understanding of His laws. Does that answer your request? Gentiles are not under the Mosaic Covenant, and no one was ever expected to really be placed "under the law" in the Mosaic Covenant -- not even the Jews. God's intent according to scripture was that man should look at the law and recognize his sin... and then come to Him. And many "Jews" (Israelites) did that, such as Samuel, Elijah, Elisha, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel etc. Their relationship with the Lord was not just one of "prophecy" but of a personal nature... and they obeyed the Lord's commands to them. If I misunderstood what you meant, please explain further. God bless. |
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71 | I CAME TO FULFILL THE LAW | Matt 5:17 | There | 23263 | ||
I agree... please see my note to Lionstrong, aka LooseCannon above. I explained more fully what I meant. As I mentioned to Brian... the post you and he answered is one that I wish I had not sent because I didn't fully explain what I meant. I'm very sorry for doing that. | ||||||
72 | I CAME TO FULFILL THE LAW | Matt 5:17 | There | 23259 | ||
The post you are answering is one of those I wish I could take back because I didn't say it right. :) Jesus didn't "change" the law of God. He simply explained the various laws from God's perspective. If we look at each "law", our human perspective reads what is on the page, whereas if we allow the Holy Spirit to teach us -- we are taught God's "understanding" of His law... which has much more depth. And that's what I meant by "change"... the law itself has not changed, but it is given more depth of understanding and therefore is "different" than a simple "thou shalt not..." type thing. I'm probably botching this up even worse this time. :):) |
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73 | I CAME TO FULFILL THE LAW | Matt 5:17 | There | 23199 | ||
Lionstrong, aka LooseCannon? :) I'm not sure that I understand exactly what you mean by "age of grace". I've heard the term many times, but it seems to me, different people mean different things by those words. As to whether or not we can disobey God's law or not... the answer is "no", but there is a difference between "keeping" the Torah (all of God's LAWS), and God's "understanding" of His law that is deeper than human understanding. I will try to explain. God's law said certain things. If a person reads it... we will have an understanding of the words written -- our own human understanding. Jesus showed us that in his examples in Matthew 5, where he added "depth" to the teachings of the Torah. He showed us "God's understanding" of those words written on paper (stone and papyrus in earlier years of course). God's understanding can only happen for each of us when we are being taught by the indwelling Holy Spirit. So we are to OBEY God's law which He writes on our hearts... but we are not under the LAW to keep it when it is only by our own human understanding. Example using one of the Ten Commandments. Thou shalt not kill. With human understanding we know that we shouldn't murder someone. And "keeping" that is good, but not in itself a complete "act of love" towards others according to God's understanding. With God's understanding (Matt. 5:21-26) we know that we are not even to THINK angry thoughts against our brother nor call him evil names... or we've just broken that commandment. I sincerely believe that each of the commandments given in Torah... have deeper meanings than just what we read on the surface. This would include the Sabbath, especially since all God's commands are culminated in the two great commands -- which are the "laws" of love toward God and man. Since the Sabbath is one that comes up so often I will also use that as an example. "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shall you work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God... " Man's understanding says "go to church and take a day off from work on Saturday". I believe that God's understanding has more "depth" than that. Jesus does not address this really except to say that He is Lord of the Sabbath, and that the Sabbath (day of rest) was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. In other words God knew man would NEED a day of rest every week from his usual labors, and I think Jesus thought we'd understand what it meant when He said He was Lord of the Sabbath too. Paul explains a bit more concerning the Sabbath when he states that our "rest" is in the Lord through faith. Hebrews 4:3 "For we who have believed DO ENTER that rest..." (vs 11) "Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall after the same example of disobedience." So yes, as human beings we physically need a day of rest per week. As new creations in God through faith, we have already entered into the rest that God intended for His children by that command. And I believe that is why Paul states in Romans 14:4-5, "Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day above another [6th or 7th?], another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind." ... because if someone observes one day or every day -- it is still observed to the Lord... and repeat, Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. He is Lord of the rest (Sabbath) that we now have through faith. Backing up... if by "age of grace" you mean the new covanant -- and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, then YES things have changed immeasurably. We are no longer under the LAW as we humanly understand it, but under God's grace where we each learn directly from Him exactly how He understands those things. So from a totally human perspective... many of the LAWS (Torah) have actually changed. But if we look at those same LAWS from God's perspective they have not. It would be sort of like the difference between reading an outline about a book and reading the book itself. We can say that every major event written in the book is included in the outline (Torah) which they are, but all of the details are still missing... until we read the entire book (learn the Torah from the Holy Spirit). If this still doesn't answer your question to me, please ask again. Perhaps we're just on two different wave-lengths here. :) God bless. |
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74 | Did Christ not fulfill the law? | Matt 5:17 | There | 22367 | ||
Hi Steve, I would simply agree with you if that was the only passage concerning Paul's teachings. Since it is stated earlier that the Jews had been informed by others that Paul taught others not to keep the Law, then maybe the only way this can be settled is to look at some of the things Paul taught... to see where "others" would have gotten that impression in the first place. Paul said such things as: Romans 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. Gal. 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law. Eph. 2:15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace. Phil. 3:6-8 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. But indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ. 1Tim. 1:5-11 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm. But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righeous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane... Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. Hebrews 7:18-19 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God. Btw, in each of those verses Paul used the same word "nomos" meaning the Law of Moses when he says "law". Personally, I think the "others" that informed the Jews that Paul "taught against the people (Jews - those who practiced Judaism), the law, and this place (the Temple - where Judism was practiced)" were quite accurate. And I am not convinced that those accusations were false. The only thing that I am sure of that was false in their accusations is that Paul took a Greek man into the Temple to defile it, the fourth accusation. |
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75 | I CAME TO FULFILL THE LAW | Matt 5:17 | There | 22280 | ||
Jesus Himself changed some of the moral laws. See specifically Matt. 5:33-48. Jesus also fulfilled some -- ceremonial and Levitical. Christ is the one time perfect sacrifice, and also our new high priest. Also Paul makes a distinction between God's Law and Christ's Law in 1Corinthians 9:21. Paul understood apparently that they are not the exact same thing. |
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76 | Did Christ not fulfill the law? | Matt 5:17 | There | 22275 | ||
I noticed that others had already answered your question, and I think I understand why you asked it. Do you think that Acts 21:26 shows Paul was still a "keeper of the Torah"? In the following passages we can learn exactly what Paul taught and practiced. Acts 21:28 "...This is the man who teaches all men everywhere against the people, the LAW (torah), and this place...". And by the way, Acts 21:26 is a very good example of Paul's words in 1Corinthians 9:20 "and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law...". |
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77 | Did Christ not fulfill the law? | Matt 5:17 | There | 22172 | ||
First I do believe that Cain's sin was not in offering "grain" to the Lord, but that he did not give God the best, but only from the leftovers so to speak. Gen.4:3-4 And at the end of days it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the Lord. Abel also brought of the FIRSTLINGS of his flock and of their fat. And the Lord respected Abel and his offerings, but He did not respect Cain and his offering. "The end of days" implies the end of the growing season, rather than the firstfruits of the crop. But I do agree that because Adam and Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, that they and their offspring KNEW right from wrong. You said: If Torah was not around before Moses how could the Lord warn Cain that sin was crouching at his door? Again, I believe Cain knew right from wrong because his parent's ate from the tree of the "knowledge of good and evil". But that is not the Torah (teaching and instruction) from God. As to the Lord's "commandments", you are making the assumption that the Torah is the Ten Commandments. But the verse in Matthew 5 is not talking about only the Ten Commandments. It is talking about the Torah, the first five books of Moses. All the teachings and instructions given to the children of Israel by God through Moses. You said: I can't think of any of the Lords commandments that I don't want to follow, can you? In another post, I mentioned to you certain teachings in the Torah that I personally would not want to "keep". I'm grateful that we are not obligated to keep the Torah. I'd prefer not to hate my enemies, give an eye for an eye, nor many of the others teachings (commands) in the Torah. You said: Jesus made it very clear that can keep G*ds commands in Matthew 5:48 "Be perfect , therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect". But we can only be "perfect" through the teachings of the Holy Spirit. I mean that our obedience in the flesh is nothing... if it is not a "law" that God has written on an indivdual heart. If God has written on your heart to let's say "keep the dietary laws", then do so. Period. It would be sin if you didn't. But if He hasn't written that on someone else's heart, but instead tells them to be grateful for the pork that He has provided them to eat... it isn't sin for them to eat pork. And that same example could be used concerning most if not all of the Torah. You said: Jesus made it very clear that can keep G*ds commands in Matthew 5:48 "Be perfect , therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect". A reminder. It is God who calls and God who "justifies". We cannot make ourselves "perfect" by obeying Torah. If one could, there would have been no need for the new covenant at all. All those things in Matthew 5 spoke of "heart motives" and there is only ONE Person that can fix a heart and perfect it. And that is God Himself. As He teaches... so we shall obey His voice. You said: The Lord says in John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command. I would then ask you... which command should we obey? An eye for an eye (Torah), or love your enemies (Matt.5:39). Love your neighbor and hate your enemy (Torah), or love your enemies (Matt.5:44)? Swear in the Lord's name (Torah), or not at all (Matt.5:34). So who's commands do you think we are suppose to obey? Those given to Israel through Moses, or those taught by Jesus Christ? |
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78 | WHAT WAS JESUS ATTITUDE | Matt 5:17 | There | 22171 | ||
Hello Searcher, Yes the Bible just calls it the "Law" ("Torah"), and as we both explained in other posts, that means "teaching and instruction". But just as Moses instructed the children of Israel to keep the Torah, which was the first FIVE BOOKS, and not to take from it nor add to it... he meant the "whole" Law (Torah)(Deut.4:2). No place where the word Torah is used, does it get divided into "parts". Not even when Jesus used the word "nomos", which means the "law of Moses", did He make a distinction between "parts" of the law of Moses (Torah). So we must assume that Jesus too, meant the whole Torah, which is the first FIVE BOOKS of the Bible. Understanding that, then we can look at why Paul says we are not "under the Torah". We know that Christians are not "under" Torah (the tutor), but are under the teacher (Holy Spirit). And even more specifically we know that we are not "under" the obligation to keep God's Torah in regards to the governing of the nation of Israel, nor God's Torah in regards to the priesthood and ceremonies. Yet some people I've heard say that we are still under the moral "Torah", but they only want to include the 10 Commandments in that "moral Torah". Jesus made no such distinction. In fact he mentions some of the "torah" that is not involved in the Ten Commandments to show that He meant the whole Torah (Matthew 5:33:31-32; 33-37; 33:38-42; 33:43-44). So if anyone wants to attempt to keep the Torah as far as just the moral laws, then according to God's Torah: Raping a woman is not sin as long as you marry her (Deut.22:29), yet Paul taught self-control rather than fornication of any kind. Put false prophets to death, and kill anyone that worships an idol (Deut.12:2; 18:22), yet Jesus taught to love our enemies and the apostle John recognized false teachers and prophets, but I don't understand scripture to say that he killed any of them. Never relinquishing hatred for anyone who would entice others to idol worship (Deut.13:9), yet Jesus said "...love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be the sons of the Father in heaven..." Matt.5:44-45. The burning of cities if they have gone astray (Deut. 13:17). What can I say? that would include most of the world... and during the days of the early church, certainly Rome. Yet the apostles or early Christians did not burn Rome. Never to dwell in the land of Egypt (17:16), yet Christ said to "preach the gospel to all the world...". But there is no NT teaching that states if someone from Egypt came to the faith, they should leave that country. Love for converts to Judaism (Deut.10:9), yet Paul (and others) tried to convert the Jews to faith in Jesus the Messiah, not to convince them to convert to Judaism. There is a difference. The religion of Judaism does not recognize Jesus as the Messiah. Jesus did not teach conversion to Judaism, but "faith" in God. Taking oaths by the the name of the Eternal Lord (Deut. 10:20), yet Jesus said "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.' But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; nor by earth, for it is his footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great king. Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. But let you 'yes' be 'yes', and your 'no' be 'no'. For whatever is more than these is from the evil one" (Matt.5:33-37). So another "moral law" was changed under the new covenant... through the "deeper meaning" that was taught by Jesus. Those "teaching and instructions" are part of the TORAH that God gave to the children of Israel through Moses. And Jesus was talking about the whole TORAH. So if a person is going to attempt to keep the Torah (LAW) then they should be attempting to keep the whole of it, not just the Ten Commandments. So yes, we can agree that Jesus gave deeper insight to the whole Torah, including the "moral" teachings. We can also agree that the whole Torah will continue until heaven and earth pass away and all is fulfilled. In other words, all of God's "teachings and instructions" will not be fulfilled until heaven and earth pass away. But that does not mean that Christians are to follow the Torah of the first covenant. We are to follow the teachings and instructions of Jesus, which we will have written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit of God. On this aspect, we may not agree. Gal. 3:25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under the tutor. |
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79 | Did Christ not fulfill the law? | Matt 5:17 | There | 22108 | ||
Are you saying that first one must have "faith" and then they must or should keep "torah"? Can we add to our salvation by our own works? If God hasn't written his "torah" on a person's heart concerning a certain thing... it would only be works of the flesh, not works of faith. That is one reason Paul was against legalism. Galatians 3:1-9 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? HAVING BEGUN IN THE SPIRIT, ARE YOU NOW BEING MADE PERFECT BY THE FLESH? Have you suffered so many things in vain -- if indeed it was in vain? Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law. or by the hearing of faith? -- just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the nations by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations will be blessed." So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. Abraham believed God -- had faith. Abraham wasn't given the "promise" because he kept "torah" which had not even been given yet. It was by faith that Abraham was saved, and because He believed God he obeyed God's commands to HIM. |
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80 | WHAT WAS JESUS ATTITUDE | Matt 5:17 | There | 22094 | ||
You're right Jesus isn't saying that He fulfilled the Law (Torah), but He is saying that He came TO fulfill it. Before I go on, I think it's important to realize that LAW, i.e. "torah" is the first five books of Moses, not only the Ten Commandments. I haven't followed along here to know if the whole meaning of the word "torah" has been used, especially in that verse in Matt. 5:17-18. The laws (teachings and instructions) concern three basic ideas. 1)Ceremonial/Levitical laws. 2) Political laws by which to govern the nation of Israel. 3) Moral laws. Since we can be relatively certain what it is that Jesus was about to "fulfill", then we can also know what part of the "torah" Jesus would fulfill by the time "heaven and earth" does "pass away". I understand that as being TWO major things. 1) Ceremonial/Levitical Law. He did and will fulfill completely the "torah" concerning the Levitical priesthood and all the ceremonial laws given under the first covenant. He not only IS our new high priest [Heb. 5:1-11] on a daily basis, but also has completely fulfilled the ceremonial duties of the Passover week, plus Pentecost [death-Passover; 3 days in the grave-Unleavened Bread; resurrection-Firstfruits; Holy spirit given-Weeks/Pentecost]. The remainder of that aspect of the ceremial law will not be "fulfilled" by Him until His second coming [Trumpets; Day of Atonement; Tabernacles]. 2) Moral Law. When a believer becomes saved, born-again of the Spirit, filled with the Spirit, however you want to say it, Jesus will fulfill the "torah" (moral law) in the individual by writing God's "torah" (teaching and instruction, i.e. law) on the individual's heart. And the totality of the torah concerning God's moral laws is being fulfilled in His children as we speak. The culmination of the moral law is 'loving God with everything you've got, and loving others as yourself'. Jesus said that on those two great commandments "hang ALL the Law (Torah) and the Prophets [Matt.22:40]. And the "keeping of the Torah" by the Pharisees was only "works" related. They looked at the "actions" as their "fulfillment" of God's law in their lives. Whereas under the new covenant, Jesus explains that believers are not just involved with doing works (actions) but allowing God to clean us from the inside out. And I think that is why Jesus went from saying that He came to fulfill the law... and continued the teaching as to how the law must be done through correct heart motives, not simply "actions". Hence, only God can fulfill the "law of love" in/through each believer. |
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