Results 61 - 80 of 169
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Results from: Notes Author: Love Fountain Ordered by Verse |
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61 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Love Fountain | 31190 | ||
Dear Tim, The view you read was probably from me in reference to the future. I don't think we have seen the last of bad angels. Anyways, you state, My only concern was a post I read earlier, I don't recall whose it was, which suggested that this might be important for the future. That view I would disagree with. As I read it, if the angels did produce children, then (according to Jude 6) they have been "locked up" and will not be a problem again. It is true those angels are locked up, but I don't recall ever getting a count on how many bad angels there actually are. The future will clear everything up and this is one thing I am sure all can agree with. Bless you, Love Fountain |
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62 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Love Fountain | 31243 | ||
Support.................... SONS OF GOD (Old Testament) (bene ha-'elohim, "sons of God" (Gen 6:2,4; Job 1:6; 2:1); bene 'elohim, "sons of God" (Job 38:7); 1. Job and Psalms: This article will deal with this phrase as it is used in the above passages. In the passages from Job and Psalms it is applied to supernatural beings or angels. In Job the "sons of God" are represented as appearing before the throne of Yahweh in heaven, ready to do Him service, and as shouting for joy at the creation of the earth, In the Psalms they are summoned to celebrate the glory of Yahweh, for there is none among them to be compared to Him. The phrase in these passages has no physical or moral reference. These heavenly beings are called "sons of God" or "sons of the 'elohim" simply as belonging to the same class or guild as the 'elohim, just as "sons of the prophets" denotes those who belong to the prophetic order (see A.B. Davidson, Commentary on Job 1:6). 2. Gen 6:2,4: Different views, however, are taken of the passage in Gen 6:2,4: "The sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all that they chose ..... The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men." See GIANTS; NEPHILIM. (1) "Sons of God" is interpreted as referring to men, (a) to sons of the nobles, who married daughters of the common people. This is the view of many Jewish authorities, who hold that it is justified by the use of 'elohim in the sense of "judges" (Ex 21:6; 22:8 f, etc.). But this cannot be the meaning of 'elohim here, for when 'adham, "men," is used to denote the lower classes, it is contrasted with 'ish, as in Ps 49:2 (3 in Heb), not with 'elohim. When contrasted with 'elohim it signifies the human race. (b) Some commentators hold that by "sons of God" is to be understood the pious race descended from Seth, and by "daughters of men" the daughters of worldly men. These commentators connect the passage with Gen 4:25 f, where the race of Seth is characterized as the worshippers of Yahweh and is designated as a whole, a seed (compare Deut 14:1; 32:5; Hos 1:10 (2:1 in Heb)). They consider the restricted meaning they put upon "men" as warranted by the contrast (compare Jer 32:20; Isa 43:4), and that as the term "daughters" expresses actual descent, it is natural to understand "sons" in a similar sense. The phrase "took wives," they contend also, supports the ethical view, being always used to signify real and lasting marriages, and cannot, therefore, be applied to the higher spirits in their unholy desire after flesh. On this view verses 1-4 are an introduction to the reason for the Flood, the great wickedness of man upon the earth (verse 5). It is held that nothing is said in verse 4 of a race of giants springing from the union of angels with human wives (see paragraph 2, below), and that the violence which is mentioned along with the corruption of the world (verse 11) refers to the sin of the giants. (2) Most scholars now reject this view and interpret "sons of God" as referring to supernatural beings in accordance with the meaning of the expression in the other passages. They hold that Deut 14:1, etc., cannot be regarded as supporting the ethical interpretation of the phrase in a historical narrative. The reference to Jer 32:20, etc., too, is considered irrelevant, the contrast in these passages being between Israel and other nations, not, as here, between men and God. Nor can a narrower signification (daughters of worldly men) be attached to "men" in verse 2 than to "men" in verse 1, where the reference is to the human race in general. This passage (Gen 6:1-4), therefore, which is the only one of its kind, is considered to be out of its place and to have been inserted here by the compiler as an introduction to the story of the Flood (verses 5-8). The intention of the original writer, however, was to account for the rise of the giant race of antiquity by the union of demigods with human wives. This interpretation accords with Enoch chapters 6-7, etc., and with Jude 6 f, where the unnatural sin of the men of Sodom who went after "strange flesh" is compared with that of the angels (compare 2 Peter 2:4 ff). (See Havernick, Introduction to the Pentateuch; Hengstenberg on the Pentateuch, I, 325; Oehler, Old Testament Theology, I, 196 f; Schultz, Old Testament Theology, I, 114 ff; Commentary on Genesis by Delitzsch, Dillmann, and Driver.) But see ANTEDILUVIANS, 3; CHILDREN OF GOD; GIANTS; NEPHILIM; REPHAIM. (from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright (c)1996 Bless you, Love Fountain |
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63 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Love Fountain | 31255 | ||
Dear Tim, I am confused by your response, "If the line of Seth was unable to survive past the flood, would not the same be true of the Nephilim? So, no matter who the Sons of God were, their offspring must have perished during the flood!" I read what Discipled wrote and he didn't say Seth's line was unable to survive the flood. We do know for sure that Seth's line survived the flood, in the being of Noah. He is asking Jesusman to support his position that instead of angels taking wives of men, Jesusman has chosen to believe that the giants are a by product of the descendants of Cain and Adam mixing blood lines. Discipled also addressed your question regarding whether or not the Nephilim(giants) made it through the flood by quoting Gen 6:4 Gen 6:4 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. NAS The above verse says Nephilim were on the earth in those days(Noah's days before the flood) and also afterward (this implies after the flood) as Discipled already stated. By the understanding of Gen 6:4 it appears there were two irruption of angels and the after the flood trace is also stated in Gen 6:4 by the fact that they became the mighty men(gibbor), men of old is how we can find them(giants) after the flood in Scripture. Bless you, Love Fountain |
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64 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Love Fountain | 31259 | ||
Dear Radioman, My heart goes out to you. I hope the pain within your heart is healed. Bless you, Love Fountain |
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65 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Love Fountain | 31346 | ||
Dear Discipled, I think you can go to update user info under the heading of information to the left side of the web page. Hope this helps. Bless you, Love Fountain |
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66 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Love Fountain | 31348 | ||
Dear Discipled, Thanks for thinking of me. Regarding the thread on tongues, I think I will wait that one out for a while yet. Tongues is another one of those that man has made more complicated than it actually is. Catch you later. Bless you, Love Fountain |
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67 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Love Fountain | 31349 | ||
Dear Servent7, Forgive me for butting in. I just want to let you know that it gives me hope to hear you and Discipled searching and understanding with your hearts. At times it is very easy to feel alone and then we hear another who speaks with the voice of love and compassion for all. Blessings to you! The following verses help me to understand when something seems so clear and yet is not. Bless you, Love Fountain Ezek 3:1-11 Ezekiel 3 3:1 Moreover he said unto me, Son of man, eat that thou findest; eat this roll, and go speak unto the house of Israel. 2 So I opened my mouth, and he caused me to eat that roll. 3 And he said unto me, Son of man, cause thy belly to eat, and fill thy bowels with this roll that I give thee. Then did I eat it; and it was in my mouth as honey for sweetness. 4 And he said unto me, Son of man, go, get thee unto the house of Israel, and speak with my words unto them. 5 For thou art not sent to a people of a strange speech and of an hard language, but to the house of Israel; 6 Not to many people of a strange speech and of an hard language, whose words thou canst not understand. Surely, had I sent thee to them, they would have hearkened unto thee. 7 But the house of Israel will not hearken unto thee; for they will not hearken unto me: for all the house of Israel are impudent and hardhearted. 8 Behold, I have made thy face strong against their faces, and thy forehead strong against their foreheads. 9 As an adamant harder than flint have I made thy forehead: fear them not, neither be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house. 10 Moreover he said unto me, Son of man, all my words that I shall speak unto thee receive in thine heart, and hear with thine ears. 11 And go, get thee to them of the captivity, unto the children of thy people, and speak unto them, and tell them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear. KJV |
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68 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Love Fountain | 31367 | ||
Dear Jesusman, Gen 6:1-2 The sons of God (bene 'Elohim)... daughters of men. Wickedness was increasing on every hand. Cain's descendants became exceedingly godless and pagan. A powerful race of giants, called "Nephilim," came into prominence. The verb (napal), "to fall," has been considered the source of the noun, and so these gigantic creatures have been thought of as "fallen ones." The reference to the (bene 'Elohim) has occasioned marked differences of opinion among scholars. ('Elohim) is plural in form. It is usually translated "God." But it can be translated "gods," as, for instance, when it refers to the gods of the heathen neighbors of Israel. It can, also, denote the heavenly circle of beings in close fellowship with Jehovah, residents of heaven, assigned specific duties as God's assistants (see Job 1:6). In some cases in Scripture "sons of God" may be identified with "angels" or "messengers." Jesus is the Son of God in a unique sense. Believers are called "sons of God" because of their relationship to him. In the OT, however, "sons of God" are a special class of beings that make up the heavenly court. The reference to the marriages of (bene 'Elohim) to the daughters of men has been dealt with in many ways. To translate it literally would make the passage say that members of the heavenly company selected choice women from the earth and set up marriage relationships with them, literally and actually. This can be the only interpretation of Job 1:6. There, the (bene 'Elohim) were plainly the members of God's heavenly court. S. R. Driver maintains that this is the only legitimate and correct sense that can be accepted. (from The Wycliffe Bible Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1962 by Moody Press) Bless you, Love Fountain |
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69 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Love Fountain | 31696 | ||
Dear Jesusman, Thanks for the response and for repeating yourself. I agree God is not the author of confusion nor does His word ever conflict with itself, and this is why I do my best to get out of the way and allow Scripture to interpret Scripture. When ever I forget to do this I try to remember the following verse, John 4:23-24 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." (from New International Version) With the above verse in mind at all times, I was reading what you wrote and a particular sentence stood out to me, You said,"Also, all that Peter says is that the angels left their natural domain. He says nothing that even hints to idea that angels had relations with humans.", on the contrary, 2 Cor 5:2 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: KJV In the above verse it says,"in this we groan" in reference to the mortal flesh body and, "our house which is from heaven" refers to our immortal spiritual body. The word,"house", in the Greek is oiketerion. The Greek word "oiketerion" is only used twice in the New Testament, the other is in the following verse, Jude 6 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. KJV The above verse says that the angels "left their own habitation". The Greek word for "habitation" is "oiketerion". In the Strongs the Greek number is 3613 and these are the only two times it is used and in both instances oiketerion is preceeded with a definite article. In the simplicity which is in Christ, this means that the angels left their spiritual existence to take on an existence in the flesh and I would conclude that once in the form of the flesh proceeded to takes wives of the daughters of men and procreate, giving birth to the nephilim, giants, mighty men of old, men of renown. We could ask ourselves how does a spirit take on the form of a man, but think about the man filled with a legion when this question arises, yes the Bible gives plenty example of spirits entering into the flesh. I hope this helps with your understanding of why I believe that the sons of God in Gen 6 are indeed fallen angels. Bless you, Love Fountain |
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70 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Love Fountain | 32151 | ||
Dear Jesusman, You said,"The story of the Flood concludes that all life on the earth, except those in the ark, died. So, the Niphillim could not have survived the flood, unless they were on the Ark." Please explain the following existence of Giants in the Bible. Num 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight. The giants, the sons of Anak. Some have suggested that the spies imagined there were giants about when they saw great walls, sometimes fifty feet high, and supposed only giants could build them. But the measurements of King Og's iron bedstead given in Deut 3:11 testify to the existence of a race of abnormally large people. Deut 2:10,20 and Gen 14:5 indicate that the "giants" date from as early as patriarchal days, and were given various local designations (Emims, Zamzumims, and Rephaim). In the Hebrew of Deut 2:11 the Anakim are called Rephaim (translated "giants"). Josh 11:22 tells us that Anakim remained in three of the Philistine cities - Gaza, Gath, and Ashdod (Jer 27:5, LXX). The family of Goliath in Gath may have been descendants of these earlier people, for in 2 Sam 21:16-22 and 1 Chron 20:4-8 these Philistine giants are called sons of the Rapa'. The fifteenth century texts from Ugarit mention the Rephaim (C. H. Gordon, Ugaritic Literature, pp. 101-103), who probably were not "shades of the dead" but actually these same mighty people (cf. Ugaritic ilnym and Hebrew ('elim); Job 41:17, Heb. Bible; 41:25, Eng.) from the north, whence came iron processing (cf. Og's bedstead). (from The Wycliffe Bible Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1962 by Moody Press) GIANT GIANT. An abnormally tall and powerful human being of ancient Bible lands; the rendering of several Heb. words. Nephilim (nef'i-lim; Heb. nepilim; Num 13:13). The form of the Heb. word denotes a plural verbal adjective or noun of passive signification, certainly from napal, "to fall," so that the connotation is "the fallen ones," clearly meaning the unnatural offspring that were on the earth in the years before the Flood, "and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them" (Gen 6:4). The mention of the great stature of the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, in the evil report that the ten spies brought of the land of Canaan (Num 13:33) together with the LXX rendering, gigantes, suggested the translation giants. They were exceedingly wicked and violent so that "every intent" of the thoughts of men's hearts "was only evil continually" (Gen 6:5). See Merrill F. Unger, Biblical Demonology, pp. 45-52. Rephaim (ref'a-im; Heb. repa'im, "shades, ghosts"). The aboriginal giants who inhabited Canaan, Edom, Moab, and Ammon. In Abraham's time, c. 1950 BC, Chedorlaomer defeated them. At the period of the conquest, c. 1440 BC, Og, king of Bashan, is said to have alone remained of this race (Deut 3:11; Josh 12:4; 13:12). His huge bedstead of iron is mentioned in particular. Anakim (an'a-kim; Heb. anaqim, "sons of Anak"). In Num 13:33 the Anakim are classified with the Nephilim on account of their gigantic size. Emim (em'im), a race that inhabited the country of the Moabites (Gen 14:5) and that is pictured as "great, numerous, and tall as the Anakim" (Deut 2:10). Zamzummim (zam'zum-im), a giant race inhabiting the land of Ammon (Deut 2:20). Other References. From a remnant of the Anakim in Philistine Gath came the famous Goliath (1 Sam 17:4). Two of the Philistine giants are mentioned in 2 Sam 21:16-22. The tradition of a giant race persisted in the ancient Near East and goes back in the Genesis account to intercourse between fallen angels and mortal women. Although this so-called angel hypothesis of Gen 6:1-4 is disclaimed by many Bible students, it is a clear implication of the original. Says W. F. Albright, "Yahweh was believed to have created astral as well as terrestrial beings and the former were popularly called, 'the host of heaven' or 'the sons of God'. In Gen 6:1 ff., for example, . . . the (astral) gods had intercourse with mortal women who gave birth to heroes (literally, meteors, nephilim), an idea that may often be illustrated from Babylonian and Greek mythology. But the Israelite who had this section recited, unquestionably thought of intercourse between angels and women (like later Jews and Christians)" (From the Stone Age to Christianity [1940], p. 226). (From The New Unger's Bible Dictionary. Originally published by Moody Press of Chicago, Illinois. Copyright (c) 1988.) Bless you, Love Fountain |
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71 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Love Fountain | 32453 | ||
Dear Jesusman, You have asked "where in the bible does it say that the sons of God were angels?" Job 1:6 6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. (from New International Version) Job 2:1 2:1 On another day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them to present himself before him. (from New International Version) My Zondervan NIV Study Bible has placed angels where other versions have said sons of God. Also, the Septuagint, which is the oldest Greek translation of the Hebrew say "angels" instead of "sons of God" in Gen 6:2. Based on the Zondervan NIV Study Bible and The Septuagint, I would say your proof is not sufficient and it is clear that the angels are indeed the sons of God. This belief goes with Scripture and is supported when we dig into the original languages. I hope we can agree that the angels did fall based on Jude 6. I clearly stated that "they left their own "oiketerion". This Greek word only occurrs in 2Cor 5:2 and in Jude 6 and is used of the spiritual (or resurrection) body, which is the nature of their fall. The nature of their sin has been stated to be "in like manner" to that of Sodom and Gomorrha, Jude 7. The time of their fall has been stated as having taken place "in the days of Noah", 1Pet3:20,2Pet 2:7. And for their sin they are "reserved unto judgement",2Pet 2:4 and in prison, 1Pet 3:19." It is clear for many Biblicaly supported reasons that the sons of God in Gen are indeed angels. If you want to believe otherwise that is up to you, but please consider what is pleasing to God when debating with others. We need to hold ourselves upright in a Christ like manner, exhorting the brethren in all humility and patience. Jesus said in so many words, if they cast out devils in my name and do not follow us, they are still on our side and not against us. In the Name of Jesus, Bless you, Love Fountain |
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72 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Love Fountain | 32555 | ||
Dear Hank, You say," I come not to debate either side of the issue, but to observe," and yet you bring another issue of debate to the table. This thread is about Gen 6:1-4 and I think we should stick to the topic, but to answer your question I have copied something Kalos wrote today and I agree with it as follows, "Consider this. Any doctrine that depends solely on one verse of Scripture -- especially if it depends on only one verse in only one particular translation -- any such doctrine that is so inadequately supported isn't much of a doctrine to begin with." That was by Kalos today and in agreeance with him, not only have I listed that the NIV says in Job, that the sons of God are angels, but also the fact that The Septuagint calls the sons of God, angels in Gen 6:2. Two examples are supplied to his request. Are the translators of the NIV and the Septuagint wrong? Jesusman asked for a verse where it says sons of God are angels, and he was shown. I find that I need to utilize as many versions as I can, especially for a deeper understanding in my search for the love and truth. Bless you, Love Fountain Regarding the Hebrew, SONS OF GOD (Old Testament) (bene ha-'elohim, "sons of God" (Gen 6:2,4; Job 1:6; 2:1); bene 'elohim, "sons of God" (Job 38:7); (from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright (c)1996 SONS OF GOD (2) Most scholars now reject this view and interpret "sons of God" as referring to supernatural beings in accordance with the meaning of the expression in the other passages. They hold that Deut 14:1, etc., cannot be regarded as supporting the ethical interpretation of the phrase in a historical narrative. The reference to Jer 32:20, etc., too, is considered irrelevant, the contrast in these passages being between Israel and other nations, not, as here, between men and God. Nor can a narrower signification (daughters of worldly men) be attached to "men" in verse 2 than to "men" in verse 1, where the reference is to the human race in general. This passage (Gen 6:1-4), therefore, which is the only one of its kind, is considered to be out of its place and to have been inserted here by the compiler as an introduction to the story of the Flood (verses 5-8). The intention of the original writer, however, was to account for the rise of the giant race of antiquity by the union of demigods with human wives. This interpretation accords with Enoch chapters 6-7, etc., and with Jude 6 f, where the unnatural sin of the men of Sodom who went after "strange flesh" is compared with that of the angels (compare 2 Peter 2:4 ff). (See Havernick, Introduction to the Pentateuch; Hengstenberg on the Pentateuch, I, 325; Oehler, Old Testament Theology, I, 196 f; Schultz, Old Testament Theology, I, 114 ff; Commentary on Genesis by Delitzsch, Dillmann, and Driver.) But see ANTEDILUVIANS, 3; CHILDREN OF GOD; GIANTS; NEPHILIM; REPHAIM. (from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright (c)1996 |
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73 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Love Fountain | 32559 | ||
(1) "Sons of God" is interpreted as referring to men, (a) to sons of the nobles, who married daughters of the common people. This is the view of many Jewish authorities, who hold that it is justified by the use of 'elohim in the sense of "judges" (Ex 21:6; 22:8 f, etc.). But this cannot be the meaning of 'elohim here, for when 'adham, "men," is used to denote the lower classes, it is contrasted with 'ish, as in Ps 49:2 (3 in Heb), not with 'elohim. When contrasted with 'elohim it signifies the human race. (b) Some commentators hold that by "sons of God" is to be understood the pious race descended from Seth, and by "daughters of men" the daughters of worldly men. These commentators connect the passage with Gen 4:25 f, where the race of Seth is characterized as the worshippers of Yahweh and is designated as a whole, a seed (compare Deut 14:1; 32:5; Hos 1:10 (2:1 in Heb)). They consider the restricted meaning they put upon "men" as warranted by the contrast (compare Jer 32:20; Isa 43:4), and that as the term "daughters" expresses actual descent, it is natural to understand "sons" in a similar sense. The phrase "took wives," they contend also, supports the ethical view, being always used to signify real and lasting marriages, and cannot, therefore, be applied to the higher spirits in their unholy desire after flesh. On this view verses 1-4 are an introduction to the reason for the Flood, the great wickedness of man upon the earth (verse 5). It is held that nothing is said in verse 4 of a race of giants springing from the union of angels with human wives (see paragraph 2, below), and that the violence which is mentioned along with the corruption of the world (verse 11) refers to the sin of the giants. (2) Most scholars now reject this view and interpret "sons of God" as referring to supernatural beings in accordance with the meaning of the expression in the other passages. They hold that Deut 14:1, etc., cannot be regarded as supporting the ethical interpretation of the phrase in a historical narrative. The reference to Jer 32:20, etc., too, is considered irrelevant, the contrast in these passages being between Israel and other nations, not, as here, between men and God. Nor can a narrower signification (daughters of worldly men) be attached to "men" in verse 2 than to "men" in verse 1, where the reference is to the human race in general. This passage (Gen 6:1-4), therefore, which is the only one of its kind, is considered to be out of its place and to have been inserted here by the compiler as an introduction to the story of the Flood (verses 5-8). The intention of the original writer, however, was to account for the rise of the giant race of antiquity by the union of demigods with human wives. This interpretation accords with Enoch chapters 6-7, etc., and with Jude 6 f, where the unnatural sin of the men of Sodom who went after "strange flesh" is compared with that of the angels (compare 2 Peter 2:4 ff). (See Havernick, Introduction to the Pentateuch; Hengstenberg on the Pentateuch, I, 325; Oehler, Old Testament Theology, I, 196 f; Schultz, Old Testament Theology, I, 114 ff; Commentary on Genesis by Delitzsch, Dillmann, and Driver.) But see ANTEDILUVIANS, 3; CHILDREN OF GOD; GIANTS; NEPHILIM; REPHAIM. (from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright (c)1996) NEPHILIM (nef'-i-lim) (nephilim): This word, translated "giants" in the King James Version, but retained in the Revised Version (British and American), is found in two passages of the Old Testament-one in Gen 6:4, relating to the antediluvians; the other in Num 13:33, relating to the sons of Anak in Canaan. In the former place the Nephilim are not necessarily to be identified with the children said to be borne "the daughters of men" to "the sons of God" (verses 2,4); indeed, they seem to be distinguished from the latter as upon the earth before this unholy commingling took place (see SONS OF GOD). But it is not easy to be certain as to the interpretation of this strange passage. In the second case they clearly represent men of gigantic stature, in comparison with whom the Israelites felt as if they were "grasshoppers." This agrees with Gen 6:4, "the mighty men that were of old, the men of renow." Septuagint, therefore, was warranted in translating by gigantes. (from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Copyright (c)1996 NEPH'ILIM (nef'i-lim; Gen 6:4; Num 13:33). See also Giant. The Nephilim are considered by many to be giant demigods, the unnatural offspring of the "daughters of men" (mortal women) in cohabitation with the "sons of God" (angels; cf. Gen 6:1-4). This utterly unnatural union, violating God's created order of being, was such a shocking abnormality as to necessitate the worldwide judgment of the Flood. (From The New Unger's Bible Dictionary. Originally published by Moody Press of Chicago, Illinois. Copyright (c) 1988.) |
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74 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Love Fountain | 32681 | ||
Dear Mr. Brown, You say,"debates are not important they can cause srife in my experince but the word stands on it own every word or god is right. just think about it . i would that we only speak the word for the purpose of edifying on another and encouraging one another in god that is all good day." I do agree that debates can cause strife, but I do not agree with your statement that debates are not important. I am here in this forum to learn and share what I have learned in all humility and love. For my passion and love is within the words of the Father. His words are Truth, and we as His children need to stand up for the Truth. If debates are not important, then I am concerned for the fact that a lie which is left undebated may lead my brothers and sisters astray and right into the hands of the evil ones. For this fact alone and many more, I will not sit back and allow false teaching to be rampant. If I am wrong in my belief, then correct me, I am open minded and always learning and searching for the truth and love. God is Love. It has been my experience that those who show strife and harshness have issues within themselves they need to workon before trying to help others. Thanks for your thoughts, Bless you, Love Fountain |
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75 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Love Fountain | 32684 | ||
Dear Mr. Brown, Please go back to the post you are responding to and see that the words used were not mine but the words were quoted from two different Bible Dictionaries. The person before me quoted words from one view and I quoted words from the other view. Neither one of us used our own words. If you believe you understand the Bible, and your understanding is Truth, why would you allow something you felt to be a lie, to exist? What about your brothers and sisters who are believing a lie and are being led astray into satan's hands? Whether they choose to believe you or not, is not up to you or I, but atleast you could say you did your best and didn't walk away and allow the deception to occur without a fight. But if you don't debate or discuss in a Christ like manner, how could you call yourself one of His children but not stand up for Him? It is one thing to debate to exalt yourself and another to debate to please the Father, by standing up for His Truth. I am a sinner and do not claim anything more, I don't fight for myself, I fight for the Truth. Bless you, Love Fountain |
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76 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Love Fountain | 32694 | ||
Dear Jesusman, The best thing a man or woman could do is put away words and teachings from man and read the Word of our Heavenly Father. This is not an experiment to me but something I do already and have done since I started reading the Bible. To read with an open mind, which is very hard to do for everyone of us, please read Gen 6:2 again very slowly. It says the "sons of God" took daughters of men. If the sons of God were indeed men, I would look for Gen 6:2 to say the "sons of men" took daughters of men. If the Text said "sons of men" I would not have an issue with what you have been saying, but the fact is that it does not say sons of men but sons of God. God is Spirit and we must worship Him in Spirit with all our heart, mind, body and soul. Angels and humans fits best because the angels left their oiketerion(spiritual house). We have a soul and our soul has two houses in which it dwells or habitates within, but only one at a time. The one we are in now is a terrestrial house(earthly flesh body) and when our flesh body dissolves(dies)our soul becomes housed within our celestial house(spiritual body). The usage of "oiketerion" in Jude 6 and 2Cor 5:2 is not in reference to heaven, it is in reference to the fact that the angels left their spiritual bodies and took on the existence of the flesh. Matt 22, where it says angels do not marry or are given in marriage is referring to them in their spiritual bodies or the resurrection bodies, but since they left their spiritual bodies the only other body for them to put on would be one of the flesh. Unless there is another type of body that I have not read about in Scripture. So since they took on the flesh body they did marry the daughters of men. This is very simple to me, I feel it is only us, man, that makes everything so difficult to understand. Whether you believe me or not is up to you, I seek not to be any greater or less than any man or woman, for we are all equal in love and one day we will all know the Truth. Whether it is me or you or both of us that is corrected, I only pray that we can get out of our own way and accept the corrections and chastisements for our beliefs. Bless you, Love Fountain |
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77 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Love Fountain | 32695 | ||
Dear Tim, Thanks for your response. It is interesting that the phrases are the exact same yet one say sons and the other says angels. You recently helped me with a definite article, based on the rules of grammar in regard to a definite article should not these phrases be consistent and say the same thing in the translation according to the rules since both are preceeded with a definite article? Also, do you know where I can read the Septuagint in English online? I have found it in Greek, but it is all Greek to me! Bless you, Love Fountain |
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78 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Love Fountain | 32698 | ||
Dear Tim, Thanks for your inquiry. When I said,"being led astray into satan's hands", the intent of this comment was in the context of all deception, not solely directed at Gen 6, sorry if I was not clear. I was trying to make a point that we need to "debate" preferrably according to the rules, to weed out the truth from the lies and Mr. Brown appeared to have no inclination to fight for the Truth, so I am hoping to have a better understanding of what he was trying to say. I have stated in this thread some things I believe regarding the fallen angels, but I don't think it was taken seriously. In Matt 24 Jesus tells us to watch the signs leading up to the end and one of the signs he says we will see is that there will be marrying and giving in marriage like in the days of Noah. Many believe this is merely in reference to men, which is true if you believe the sons of God were men in Gen 6. If you believe the sons of God were angels then Matt 24 would be saying the angels are going to be back doing the same things they did in the time of Noah. You laughed at what I said in referece to Rev 9, but I was serious. I don't think we have seen the last of them. If we had seen the last of them, why the book of Jude? And why in 1Cor 11 does the Bible teach, spiritually,that men are not to have a false spiritual veil(long hair) and women are not to remove their spiritual veil(long hair) because of the angels? The answer to "because of the angels", I feel lies within Rev 9. Articulation is not one of my strengths, thanks for your patience and questions. Bless you, Love Fountain |
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79 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Love Fountain | 33590 | ||
Dear Jesusman, You said,"As for Genesis 4:26, and the "proclaim" meaning "profain". I haven't been able to find any support for that. Enos. (Genesis 4:26.) "Calling on the Name of the Lord. This Is Appendix 21 From The Companion Bible. "Then began men to call upon the name of Jehovah." If this refers to Divine worship it is not true: for Abel and Cain both began, and their descendants doubtless followed their example. What was really begun was the profanation of the Name of Jehovah. They began to call something by the Name of Jehovah. The Authorized Version suggests "themselves", in the margin. But the majority of the ancient Jewish commentators supply the Ellipsis by the words "their gods"; suggesting that they called the stars and idols their gods, and worshipped them. The Targum of Onkelos explains it: "then in his days the sons of men desisted from praying in the Name of the Lord." The Targum of Jonathan says: "That was the generation in whose days they began to err, and to make themselves idols, and surnamed their idols by the Name of the Word of the Lord." Kimchi, Rashi, and other ancient Jewish commentators agree with this. Rashi says: "Then was there profanation in calling on the Name of the Lord." Jerome says that this was the opinion of many Jews in his days. Maimonides, in his Commentary on the Mishna (a constituent part of the Talmud), A.D. 1168, in a long treatise on idolatry, gives the most probable account of the origin of idolatry in the days of Enos. The name Enos agrees with this; for his name means frail, weak, sickly, incurable. The sons of men, as "Enosh", are so called for a similar reason (Job 7:17; 15:14. Psalm 9:20; 103:15. Daniel 2:43). (See Appendix 14) If Jonathan, the grandson of Moses, became the first idolatrous priest in Israel (see notes on Judges 18:30), what wonder that Enos, the grandson of Adam, introduced idolatry among mankind. Moreover, what "ungodliness" did Enoch, "the seventh from Adam" have to prophesy about in Jude 14, 15, if purity of worship was begun in the days of Enos, instead of profanation in calling on the Name of the Lord? Surely this is sufficient evidence that this profanation of the Name of the Lord was the reason why Enoch was raised up to prophesy against it. I hope this is the support you were looking for. Bless you, Love Fountain |
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80 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Love Fountain | 33605 | ||
Dear Jesusman, I want to be clear, do you believe that angels are only in spirit throughout the Bible? Bless you, Love Fountain |
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