Results 41 - 60 of 71
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Results from: Notes Author: jg8ball Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
41 | I agree with you 100 percent. But... | Hebrews | jg8ball | 1171 | ||
I'd love to hear your interpretation of what you think 2 Peter 2:20 is saying then. | ||||||
42 | I agree with you 100 percent. But... | Hebrews | jg8ball | 1167 | ||
To put that verse in context, Jesus is talking to non-believers and telling them that there is nothing you can do to snatch the saved out of the Father's hand. It's telling us that as long as we chose to believe then nothing can prevent us from being saved. 2 Peter 2:20 states very clearly that it is possible to lose your salvation. |
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43 | I agree with you 100 percent. But... | Hebrews | jg8ball | 1163 | ||
To answer why a person would renounce there salvation, I guess I'd have to say because we are forgetfull people when it comes to all the great things God has done for us. It could be really easy for a saved person to forget the love of God and be drawn back to the temptations of the world. To give an Old Testament example, look at the exodus from Egypt. Look at all God did for the Hebrews and look at how many times they still complained and wanted to turn back. I believe many would have turned back if it were not for Moses and Aaron consistantly reminding them of God's promise and Love. The same is true today. We need to encourage one another and remind each other daily of God's love so that no one has the opportunity to turn back to the world. | ||||||
44 | COULD A BELIEVER LOSE THEIR SALVATION? | Hebrews | jg8ball | 1128 | ||
Sorry JVH0212, but I can't seem to leave you alone. Please don't put ideas into passages. Read them for what they are. Following are the verses you quoted with my interpretations: John 5:24 is simply saying that those that are saved have everlasting life. It does not say anything about not being able to lose that salvation. Romans 8:28-39 is talking about external things will not be able to separate us from God. Jude 24 - Yes, God is able to keep us from stumbling but if we refuse the help then it's our problem. 1 John 2:19 - is talking about how we will know it is the last hour (v 18). I believe it's kind of saying that we will be suprised when we see friends and family turn away from God because they were not saved because if they were saved then they would not have turned their backs on Jesus. Note that verse 24 says "See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father." Note the "If it does". This implies that it is possible that to turn your back on what you once knew. And if we do keep what we heard in us, what will happen? Verse 25 - "And this is what he promised us -- even eternal life." You are again putting ideas in Phil 1:6 that are not there. Read it again. It is saying that God will not bail out on us and will keep his offer of salvation until the end. Did you even read John 8:31? Jesus is telling the Jews that believed in him (therefore saved) that If they hold to His teaching, they are really his disciples. In otherwords, Jesus is telling this group of saved people that if they continue belive they will be saved which implies that if they stop believing, then they will not be saved. Hebrews 3:14 "We have come to share in Christ IF we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first." Notice the "IF" If I didn't know better I'd think you were trying to prove that it's possible for a person to renounce their own salvation. Psalm 51:11-12 "Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me. Restore to me the joy of your salvation and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me." The author of this psalm obviously thought he could lose God. 2 Peter 5-10 is telling us to make every effort to make sure we keep the "good qualities" and that IF we do these things we will not fall. Eph 1:14 - Yes, the Holy Spirit is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance. Jesus died for our sins. Our salvation is guaranteed (as long as we do not renounce that salvation). In otherwords, if you take a pop (or soda) bottle to the store they will give you the deposit - it's guranteed unless of course you decide to throw that bottle out the window on the way. When you get to the store, you'll have nothing. And one more verse I'll add: 2 Peter 2:20 "If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning." It doesn't matter who the "they" are (in this case he's talking about false teachers) it's more important to notice that the "they" were saved becase they escaped the corruption of the world thru Jesus and then lost that salvation (entangled and overcome in the ways of the world) and will pay dearly for this. |
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45 | Questions for my Calvinists friends. | Job 38:1 | jg8ball | 1097 | ||
Thanks for your response. From yours and JVH0212's postings, I think I'm seeing that not everyone that believes in the Doctrine of the Elect believe that God only chose certain people to be saved. I hope I'm interpreting this correctly. I am going to try and sit down with the elder at my church and find out exactly where he's coming from. thanks again. |
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46 | Who has the opportunity to be saved? | Job 38:1 | jg8ball | 1095 | ||
I think we are closer in our beliefs than we realize. I guess our difference here is that I believe God's choosing us could be viewed as God making an initial offer to us and giving us the option to accept it or not. In other words, God chose all of us in his plan for salvation but want's us to make the decision to follow him on our own. Unfortunately, not all will. This thought allows for both the "Whosovers" and the "God's Choosing" to coexist nicely and makes it easier to interpret these "conflicting" passages. The other area we disagree on is that I believe it's possible to renounce one's salvation - although I have no idea why one would. I've replied back to you on this topic in another posting and in case you haven't read it yet, I appologize in advance for any little digs :) I tend to get a little over passionate on this stuff. |
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47 | Eternal Security and 2 Peter 2:20 ??? | 2 Peter | jg8ball | 1085 | ||
I'm not denying that it's talking about false teachers. I'm saying that verse 20 is saying very clearly that it's possible to lose one's salvation. Couldn't it be that the people that were saved and given up the salvation are the false teachers mentioned above. Who would be a better false teacher? One that knew nothing of the Bible or one that knew about it, new the love of Jesus, but later rejected it for the pleasures of the world and began twisting the doctrines with little half-truths to sway people away? PLEASE READ THE WHOLE CHAPTER (or better yet, the whole bible) Don't throw out verses because they don't fit with what you want to believe!!! And as I've repeatedly said, I don't deny the number if instances the words appear. I deny your use of the words to make your point. Take each of those words in context and most have nothing to do with the doctrine of election. And again, the word Trinity does not occur in the bible at all. Does this mean it doesn't exist? NO!! When you respond to a posting, please take your time and read it and try to understand, answer, and address all that was written. |
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48 | Who has the opportunity to be saved? | Job 38:1 | jg8ball | 1082 | ||
First of all you can stop using Calvinism. I admitted I was wrong and have started using Doctrine of Election. I did not realize that there were non-Calvins that believe in the Doctrine of Election. Since you say that you believe that ALL people have the opportunity to be saved then your view is different than what I have been told what Election means -- That God has predestined his elect to be saved and the rest not to be saved. Since you do believe (as do I) that all can be saved through faith alone, then how does this fit in with your interpretation of the doctrine of election? |
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49 | Eternal Security and 2 Peter 2:20 ??? | 2 Peter | jg8ball | 1078 | ||
Talk about close minded persons. Yes, verse 1 (and this chapter) talks about false teachers. But, I didn't ask about verse 1, I asked about Verse 20. Since you seem not to want to read that far, I'll break it down in easy to understand terminology for you. 2 Peter 2:20 "If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ..." How does one escape the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord? It doesn't matter who you are. If you escape it, then you are saved. PERIOD. (unless of course you believe there is some sort of "in between" state.) "...and are again entangled in it and overcome" "And again entangled" implies that the person has reverted back to the old sinfull ways "...and overcome..." would imply that the person has lost Jesus. "...they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning." This proves that they are no longer saved because if so, then how could they be worse in the end? Basically, it's telling you that you'd be better off having not been saved at all. Because those that are saved and renounce that salvation to turn back to the ways of the world and spread lies will not be in a good mood at judgement day. By the way, did you get a chance to look up those 250 times the words appear in the bible? Do you still want to use that number? I'm not sure why your eyes have been closed but I pray that someone will be able to open them. |
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50 | Eternal Security and 2 Peter 2:20 ??? | 2 Peter | jg8ball | 1077 | ||
Thank you! I agree with everything you said. My concern is with people that believe that God pre-chose certain people to be saved. In other words, they believe that there are certain people that are unable to be saved. This is what an elder at the church I attend is telling me. He calls himself Calvinistic and believes firmly in the Doctrine of Election. There are just too many verses that talk otherwise. I also get frustrated when people say things like "since there are 255 times the elect, election, chose, chosen and choose appear then that proves the doctrine. What they fail to do is look up the words, read them in context, and see that they (or at least the majority of them) have nothing to do with Election. What I'm starting to see though is that there appears to be different levels of belief in Election. Those that believe ALL can be saved and those that believe SOME can be saved. I believe ALL can be saved - through FAITH ALONE. I'm not sure why JVH0212 keeps implying that I believe it's also by works. God offered me salvation through Jesus and I elected to accept it. |
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51 | Who has the opportunity to be saved? | Job 38:1 | jg8ball | 1032 | ||
I don't think of it as a "Salvation" issue but more of an error in interpretation - similar to how the Jehovah Witness's have interpreted the Bible. (Basing a religion on parts of the bible and using that basis to fit the rest of the bible to those beliefs and ignoring, or changing, the parts that don't fit) I guess the scariest part to Election (to me) is that it would seem too easy for a person to assume that they must not be an "Elect" because of all the horrible things they've done and miss out on the love of Jesus. The same holds true for a person that believes in Jesus but then back slides and begins to wonder if they are an "Elect". |
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52 | Why won't Calvinists answer directly??? | Job 38:1 | jg8ball | 976 | ||
PART TWO: In your Part two, I think I've answered your first two paragraphs but would be happy to directly respond to any scripture verses you supply although I have done this elsewhere in this forum. (I would appreciate it if you would respond to my 3 original questions first though). The idea of God being fair or not has nothing to do with why I don't believe in Election. If God were fair (in God's terms) then we would all go to Hell. If God were fair (in human terms) then all good people would go to Heaven. The point is that God did put a limit on the people that would be saved. That limit is that ANYONE that CHOSES to believe in His Son and repent their sins will be saved. You bring up the example of the person driving a Honda Accord for 20 years and just because I don't drive one I'm in no position to get you to change cars. I assume then you also believe if you talked to a Jehovah's Witness, a Mormon, an Athiest, a Prostitute, etc... then you would not be able to show them what it means to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior? I believe I could get you out of that Accord and into a Grand Prix if I were to show you enough examples of why the Accord is a bad car, has poor safety records, is driven only by those that have been taught "that's the car we drive, son", etc... (Although this is a bad example because the Accord really is a good car.) I assume by your 2nd to last paragraph that you believe that the three questions I asked are not well-thought-out or scripturally based, otherwise you would have attempted to answer them. If this is so, please let me know why. Thank you (and sorry about the long reply) I also respect your right to your own attitudes, but I also think about the passage where we are warned against those that teach false doctrine. I'm not saying that Election is false doctrine, it's that I'm trying to determine (for myself) if it's worth running from (or fighting against). A little background info -- I'm attending a church that is Calvinistic in majority (and believe in Election - "only some are chosen to be saved") and have come to the conclusion that I need to either understand how I may be misinterpreting the bible, fight or run) I'm not one to believe in something just because someone says it's true. I have to research it for myself and see if there could be two possible interpretations and if not, then determine if this is a doctrinal matter or just a little human petty thing. I really am trying to understand the Election idea but have not received any real help. Thank you for your patience. |
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53 | Have you ever looked at Urantia Book? | Rev 19:4 | jg8ball | 913 | ||
I'm sorry, but I think I missed something somewhere. You said earlier "According to reports, the book was produced by more than 400 experts who were told to prepare questions for God regarding the need for additional knowledge and understanding in their fields of expertise. These questions were submitted. The answers came from 'out there.'" and now you feel that it is the scroll that Daniel was to seal until the times of the end?. Don't you think it's more likely that the group of 400 people concocted their own religion? I also assume that you must believe that we are in the times of the end and have been ever since the book went on sale. You also mentioned that you watched a man read the book and go insane. Did you sit and watch him read the entire 2000 pages? and Did he go insane gradually as he read or did it happen as soon as he finished the book? Sorry, I'll stick to the Bible. Matthew 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves." |
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54 | reincarnation in the bible? | John 9:3 | jg8ball | 912 | ||
AMEN! | ||||||
55 | What does Bible teach on election? | Bible general Archive 1 | jg8ball | 777 | ||
I do believe your interpretation of Divine Predestination. I guess where I disagree is interpretation of Election. In the verse you listed (2 Thes 2:13), I interpret this as follows: Paul is writing to a group of believers and when he refers to "God has chosen (elected) you from the beginning for salvation", he's not telling them that they are special because God had pre-chosen them individually, but God had made a provision for them to be saved and they are special (the "Elect" or in today's terms "the born-again" or "believers") because they accepted God's gift and chose to follow Christ. There are many verses in the Bible that talk about God wanting all to be saved and for us to choose to believe. When you look at the verses that talk about the elect and apply the interpretation that the elect are another way of saying believers and that predestination is refering to God's over-all plan rather than individually, then the whole bible falls together. I haven't seen any "Election" verses that can't interpreted this way. I have seen many verses and stories in the Bible that the "Election theory" doesn't hold up. I will be spending some time exploring the "Election" interpretation in greater detail and hope you will also spend some time exploring the "Free Will" interpretation in an unbiased study. |
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56 | What is the best version of the Bible? | Bible general Archive 1 | jg8ball | 623 | ||
Excellent answer! I myself have used primarily the NIV but will be getting a NASB soon. I usually use the computer to check different versions (www.blueletterbible.com has some nice features for this) but sometimes there's nothing like the real book. I'm looking forward to comparing the "thought for thought" translation to the "word for word" translation. thanks for your answer. |
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57 | What does Bible teach on election? | Bible general Archive 1 | jg8ball | 598 | ||
Thanks for the link. I (currently) don't believe in the predestination theory, at least as it's been explained to me, but your notes look well laid out and seem, at first glance, to give an in-depth look at this theory - 97 pages worth. I look forward to reviewing this document to see if my interpretations are faulty or if this is just something that we'll find out in the end. Also, if anyone else wishes to communicate via e-mail and does not wish to post their address, they could setup a "temporary account" at hotmail.com - or similar web-based email systems. That way if this account gets slammed with unwanted e-mails, you just cancel it. |
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58 | That's an interesting belief. | Luke 23:43 | jg8ball | 597 | ||
Thanks. You and June bring up good points. I've always been about 60 to 40 in favor of the possiblity of renouncing one's salvation (although I admit I have no idea why one would) but now I think I'm starting to lean the other way. I'll do some more reading into what you wrote and talking with others and maybe I'll swing even farther to the once saved always saved. On the otherhand though, I do believe that we have the choice whether or not to accept Gods gift of salvation. Not because of any pridefull thing or power trip, but because I believe that God would rather have us make the decision to worship Him rather than force us to. Consider for example if you had the power to make someone love you. Would you use it or would you rather have them choose to love you? |
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59 | Explanations of difficult verses | NT general Archive 1 | jg8ball | 558 | ||
Thanks for the information. I look forward to reviewing it with my friend. |
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60 | God, Satan, and Job's sons discuss dad? | Gen 6:4 | jg8ball | 557 | ||
I'll try and further investigate the "sons of God" as to whether it means man or angels. As far as the NIV version, I believe that God also inspired the translators when pulling out the meaning of what the original authors wrote. I guess to really know, we'd all have to learn Hebrew and Greek and study the original manuscripts. But if I am remembering correctly, the New Testiment (or parts of it) was most likely written in Aramaic and was later translated to Greek. Since we no longer have the original, we must rely on those early translators. |
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