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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
241 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | gracefull | 90126 | ||
Ed, I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt, that you are simply confused by the many posts here, and not actually misrepresenting what I said. So I will copy and paste my statement. "If God's word doesn't contradict, then possibly your take that God said everyone has to physically die could be wrong." Now I will go copy and paste what I said... "I agree that He does not always disclose the exact path of prophetic fulfillment, but in the case of Enoch and Elizah there would have had to be a 'loophole' of some sort in the curse that came upon Adam and all mankind. The curse came upon all men. The priest were offering sacrifices for the people which still did not make them righteous...fytRobert has a valid question...how did Enoch and Elizah escape death? NOT just physical death but they were 'taken up' opposed to descending into Hell (the holding compartment) like everyone else?" Please note carefully the LAST sentence. You may have to read through the thread to find it but someone else addressed this question from the physical death perspective and I was pointing out that escaping physical death is not the question. Escaping physical death is not something I have a problem with in this passage..but rather that Enoch and Elizah also seemingly escaped the spiritual death which is seperation from God.... How could that be in light of the fact that 'death' 'spiritual death' was placed on ALL mankind? If every animal in the world were sacrificed they would not have been 'Clean'. I do not have the answer, but all the answers I have heard here have only raised more questions. Which I am presenting for consideration. God bless |
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242 | Remember the Sabbath; when? | Gen 1:1 | gracefull | 90125 | ||
I was telling schmythe that I believed the sabbath worship (Saturday)under the New Covenant is not required. You should not insinuate that I believe experience trumps the Word when my posts have many times proven otherwise. God bless |
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243 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | gracefull | 90113 | ||
Good morning schmythe, What I said was that REDEMPTION had not yet been provided by the Man Jesus. He had not shed His blood for the sins of mankind so redemption or the escape from the penalty of sin had not yet been provided, therefore Enoch and Elizah were both still under the Old Covenant, just as Issac, Jacob and Abraham. Jesus THE WORD was with the Father 'from the beginning' and was very active in the creation. God the Father spoke the Word and the Holy Spirit moved. Does that clarify my statement? God bless |
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244 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | gracefull | 90111 | ||
Hi George, I understand your response. I tend to do this myself...and we scripture is truly the final authority in all discussion...gentleness is a fruit of the Holy Spirit in us, and as with all fruit, they take time to be produced in all of us. Now on Enoch and Elizah... "Who is to say that Enoch and Eliga have escaped the curse? (Now, please don't take this statement as it appears. Take it spiritually.) Who is to say their curse is not yet to come in the end days?" In discussing Enoch and Elizha, I do not know either. Most of us only have theory. The only thing that bothers me about this is the observation I made, that God does not change. I was opening up the discussion in light of our doctrines. God could not, would not violate His Word. The statement that God does not want us to know is not acceptable to me. Not because I believe He 'tells all' but because this statement can discourage a seeker from seeking. As a teacher, I do not agree with this method of answering a question. The best approach is to say that I do not know, but here is what we do know...now let's do some comparisons of scripture and pray for wisdom. As you said...did they escape? I do not have the answer anymore than Robert....And the fact is, neither did anyone else...but Robert had an excellent question. No, we do not know they escaped the curse, but there is the question of them going 'up' and not 'down'... But in light of the foundational doctrines, if we are wrong in those it will take a whole lot more than a brief discussion here on this forum! Know what I mean? I am submitting the question to the Holy Spirit, because He is the one who knows. God bless |
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245 | Remember the Sabbath; when? | Gen 1:1 | gracefull | 90107 | ||
Hi Ed, My response was to schmythe, and was simply closing the discussion of 'sabbath' worship becuse the two of us apparently agree. But scriptural basis I will now give because you have asked... Collossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" |
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246 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | gracefull | 90106 | ||
God's own Word, which He swears by, is the essence of Himself John 1:1-3 'boxed' Himself in by covenant. God is not a covenant breaker. I agree with both verses above and do not see where God's Word of Covenant contradicts these verses. His Word IS His will. If His Word were unreliable He would be like mankind..unreliable. But we know God is faithful and His Word is ABSOLUTE we should not have any qualms about asking Him to reveal how this was possible in light of Romans 5:14-17. The answer is most likely hidden in His Word, but we can't see it due to our own 'boxed in thinking', which may or may not correct. God bless |
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247 | Are we Stupid or Lazy? Our Soul at stak | Rom 14:12 | gracefull | 89881 | ||
Hi George, We all are definitely still growing...You weren't wrongexcept to try to put all in the same box. Our wonderful Lord recognizes all our differences and trains each of us as only a/THE wise Father can, and in accordance to the gifts and calling He has given each of us. God bless |
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248 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | gracefull | 89871 | ||
"When I address this forum again -- if it's God's will -- I will examine the first premise most churches teach that the Scriptures plainly contradict, but by its application casts many a stumbling block before the would-be believer." You have piqued my curiosity...I hope I don't miss the post. Do you see a 'premise' that may have blocked our vision on this topic..Enoch and Elizah translated? God bless |
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249 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | gracefull | 89870 | ||
George, I would like to make two points if I may.. First, your statement here confirms the 'consideration' of schmythe is unscriptureal. "So… I seriously doubt that Enoch and Elijah were taken up by Jesus, for He hadn’t even been born yet. Thus, this occurrence is irrelevant to the fact that “says the only way to the Father is through Jesus.”" He had not yet paid the price for man's sins so Enoch and Elizah were still under the curse of the law of sin and death, still under the Old Covenant, unredeemed. My second point is that when someone comes to the forum who is searching for an answer, even through speculation, their speculations should be responded to with scripture and not animosity, despite how they may be 'coming across'. We should make every effort to set the example. Speculation is the way some go at learning... Thirdly, based on the truth set forth that it is not likely Jesus came and took them because scripture tells us He had no become the redeemer until death burial and resurrection..So the scripture can't be broken...How can Enoch and Elizah be translated based on Romans 5:14-17? They were under the same curse, they were definitely men..Enoch had children... I agree these two may very well be the two witnesses...but how did they escape the curse? Forgive me if you have given a clear response to this already, I may have missed a post the post. If so, just direct me to it or copy and paste it to this note. God bless |
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250 | Remember the Sabbath; when? | Gen 1:1 | gracefull | 89865 | ||
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: I agree...I was born again in a church that worships on Sunday, so I know the Holy Spirit was there. His Spirit led me to a church that worships on Sunday, and I know He would not lead me to a place of 'sin'. I know experience does not trump the Word, but when one finds God manifesting His presence in a worship service on Sunday, one must conclude He is OK with it! God bless |
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251 | Spreading the gospel | NT general Archive 1 | gracefull | 89736 | ||
"Thanks. I think one of the main things that keeps me from witnessing alot is a past chock full of hypocrisy and back-sliding, filled with conviction and sorrow, and eventually embraced by true repentance. Through all that, I feel somewhat at a loss to witness to others when alot of my life has been full of compromise. It truly can be a miserable existence. The older I get, however, the more gracious God seems to be to me to let me understand that I don't have to feel condemned by my past, but I do have to do something about the present. And that something is trying to live by the light that has been revealed to me." I understand...remember what scripture says in Romans 2:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; When the accuser comes to intimidate you it may be helpful to remind him that that is what the BLOOD is for. And if others try to accuse you, remind them that that is what salvation is all about..redeeming the unworthy! The more unworthy, the more testimony we have of God's great mercy and grace! Grace to me is like being in the womg conected by the umbilical cord (Jesus) my lifeline to the Father! While in this womb, He is feeding and nurturing me and I am growing...birth will be the deliverance from this body of sin into the face to face presence of my Father! God bless |
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252 | Is homosexuality actually forbidden? | Romans | gracefull | 89734 | ||
Leecappella, Can you give scripture for this statement for comparison? "They are not. A 'sodomite' is a male cult prostitute or a quasi sacred devotee to licentiousness via prostitution. The context is idolatry and the sexual acts that were done in service or worship to false gods like Baal, Molech, Ashtoreth, etc. A good link to visit is www.cebiaz.com/book. Let me know what you think. God bless." God bless |
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253 | "fear of finding truth"? | Rom 14:12 | gracefull | 89707 | ||
The words ignorant or stupid convey a message of extreme vulnerability which we do not like to acknowledge. Sort of like someone poking you in the ribs from behind. At least that's probably some responses. If we believe we are seeking the Lord and His wisdom at our best, then someone comes along and speaks of ignorance and stupidity, our first response would be..I am doing my best!...But it is really not about doing our best but more about remembering we are fallible, and we always need to stay humble in our search for truth! Then we KNOW despite all our 'revelation', we still only have minischule UNDERSTANDING of HIM. These are my thoughts, God bless |
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254 | Putting 2 and 2 together | Rom 14:12 | gracefull | 89635 | ||
"Let me add something to what Graceful said. The people wanted a king. Why? Not for the reason they stated to be like everyone else. They wanted to deal with a human rather than God. Why? God deals in absolutes while man's reasoning can be clouded to see situations. Their hope was with a king they could justify their actions rather than have them scrutinize by a perfect God speaking in absolutes." AMEN! "They wanted to apply their situational ethics to God’s mandate thou shall not murder. People don’t read the Bible because they don’t want God messing with their situational ethics." AMEN AMEN! God Bless |
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255 | Is not God inside of each of us? | Bible general Archive 1 | gracefull | 89634 | ||
Hi LGC, I copied the following from one of your other post because it seems to clarify your position.... "Like I said, there just seemed to be an imbalance towards interpreting the scripture zealously (what does this one verse mean, what does this one word mean) without any reliance on the Spirit or its revelations." Why have you come to this conclusion? What has prompted you to believe the post, or at least some of them are not direct interpretations from revelation from the Holy Spirit? Is it because we do not preface our posts with the statement, "God told me", or that "The Holy Spirit revealed to me that this verse means...?" Or are you looking asking why we are not posting our personal revelations such as.."The Holy Spirit spoke to my heart when I was reading these verses and told me to do thus and such or go to such and such place..."? If that is the question, probably because it is personal directions and for me to share those with you will not give you the same revelation. If I am understanding you correctly, the Holy Spirit speaks to each of us in accordance with our own walk and calling. He is not going to confirm to you to go the Africa from a verse just because He confirmed it to me. He may not be sending you to Africa...Am I understanding your question? Based on the example...The Holy Spirit telling me to go to Africa would be scripturally sound."Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel." Now in light of this example..how would this in any way add to a study of the scripture to "GO.."? How could my personal call to go to Africa communicate any more depth to this verse? However if I said the Holy Spirit was telling me to divorce my husband for another man...That is unscriptural and I would therefore know this is not the voice of the Holy Spirit...that was my point when I said personal experiences are unreliable without the Word. I hope we are communicating better now..I am certainly not being controversial, but rather just trying to get on the same page with you. God bless PS- I don't agree with your interpretation of Romans 2. Paul is saying the Jews who have the law will be judged the same as the gentiles who do no have the law but do have their conscience to confimr or convict. Paul is not speaking of gentiles who are Spirit filled. He says the gentiles will give an account based on their conscience(their law) and the Jews will give an account for their deeds based on their (LAW). With God there is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female...everyone is on the same plain for the judgement. God bless....again Maybe we can discuss it in detail later. |
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256 | Are we Stupid or Lazy? Our Soul at stak | Rom 14:12 | gracefull | 89616 | ||
Thank you New Creature, Jesus gives a very clear warning about taking heed how we treat the Word of God that we hear... Mark 4:23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear. 24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given. 25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath. It is quite understandable for a baby Christian to remain with it's 'parents'. But it should eventually grow up and start to become independant. By independant I do not mean rebellious, but one who seeks to be a doer of the Word. And stands on their own in the Word, no longer needing milk and no longer being a taker but becoming a giver, no longer a child but a parent themselves. God bless |
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257 | Are we Stupid or Lazy? Our Soul at stak | Rom 14:12 | gracefull | 89463 | ||
George, All in this type of environment are there because they have rejected truth..Some have not heard it, some who are studying have not matured or developed spiritually to the point of recognizing this truth.(revelation) Don't write them off so quickly. If the Holy Spirit has placed someone bound this way in your path, I would not shake the dust off until the Holy Spirit tells you to. We as humans are incapable of seeing the flickering life in someone's soul but God does, and He may be using you to 'fan the flame'. Isaiah 42:3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. God bless |
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258 | special revelation vs general revelation | Ps 19:1 | gracefull | 89379 | ||
"I never saw you say anything about teachers you just said people would try to deflect his thread and that it happens all the time to you." No, Tim did, that was why I warned him to stick to scripture. "In my example in Hosea it clearly says that because the nation had forsook God he should marry a whore. That is not out of context nor is it adding any other meaning. However we both know God does not want every man to marry a whore. See the context and the meaning of the verse supports it but reason tells us God meant something clearly different." This was at God's specific instruction and He often had his prophets resort to natural actions to speak to spiritual. And to use this as a command or authorization to marry a whore is taking it out of context. "That is where we tangle in WOF teaching. Many times in context and meaning the verse does say what they claim however scripture has clearly established clearly shown other places that is not the meaning of the verse. When this happens is when our communications break down I try to show that the verse is redefinned somewhere else and you want to beat the fact the verse says what is says." I use them in context...Again to pull another meaning from the above would be to take it out context. Christianity today if read and taken at face value would convey the message you send, but for one to truly research the quotes or misquotes would take the committment of a ministry. From one who came from the misquoted side to the book, I see readily the misquotes. If you can't prove questionable issues here on the forum from scripture, why do you expect new comeers to just accept your belief? Just take your word for it? That is my issue...I told Tim do not reference WOF teachers because the thread would break down and the discussion would be lost......... As it HAS God bless |
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259 | Are we Stupid or Lazy? Our Soul at stak | Rom 14:12 | gracefull | 89377 | ||
Hello Asis, The question was asked why some do not seek the truth of scripture but rely on men to seek for them...Not SHOULD men do this. My point was that this is not a cultural thing but a human nature thing, and many have not, and will not seek truth for themselves. God bless |
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260 | special revelation vs general revelation | Ps 19:1 | gracefull | 89375 | ||
"reasons far above our understanding does not answer." Here is where we disagree...I do not believe the reasons are beyond our understanding. One who is not receiving an answer should see for the reason, the correction, the enlightenment. I do not believe God leaves His children in the dark, but that if they remain in the dark by choice. WOF teaches that this is a progressive learning process and that the more time we spend in prayer and His Word, truly committed, the more we will mature in understanding what God has for so we can ASK CORRECTLY...Or in some cases, receive the promise, thanking God for the gift. "We can’t pretend to know God’s purpose but even in our sickness (not that God caused it) can have God’s purpose." No we can'tpretend to know but God is not hiding His will from us, we just do not hear all the time. Romans 8 26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? These verses are not saying that every circumstance of life are directed by God to form us. Many circumstance of life come against us from the adversary. The working for us is the promise that God has freely given us all things through Christ Jesus. Here again you fail to acknowledge that man can choose to rebel and blace himself in the hands of the adversary, man can believe the lies os Satan and not receive the promises of God...does that mean that not receiving the promises was orchastrated by God for their good? Here again the botom line of the issue rests with the question...did God provide healing through the atonement....or is it His instrument of chastening? I believe that By His Stripes I WAS healed...Not was healed if I fall in to the right category. God bless God bless |
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