Results 21 - 23 of 23
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Results from: Notes Author: nicko715 Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | Is Universalism Scriptural | Lev 16:34 | nicko715 | 198730 | ||
Val, I don't know what denomination teaches this. The church I attend doesn't, but it's still a great body of believers. This view has come from years of wrestling with certain issues and much studying (Scripture and other writers). The fact that God will ultimately reconcile all seems to fit more properly with how God describes Himself in Scripture. Here are a few that compare His anger and His mercy Psalms 30.5 - For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning. Psalms 103.8 - The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy. Psalms 148.8-9 - The LORD is gracious, and full of compassion; slow to anger, and of great mercy. The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works. Lamen 3.31-33 – for the Lord will not cast off forever: But though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies. For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men. Jonah 4.2 - And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil. Micah 7.18-19 - Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger forever, because he delighteth in mercy. He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea. God's mercy is always described as greater than His anger. Jesus tells us to love our enemies so that we can be perfect like our Father in Heaven (Matt 5:43-48), yet we are taught that He will hate them and burn them forever. Anyway, I started to ramble on. I do not know which (if any) denomination will teach this. Nick |
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22 | Is Universalism Scriptural | Lev 16:34 | nicko715 | 198725 | ||
Hello Doc, I am really not sure what you are getting at for 1 Tim 4:10. You said that "Had Paul intended the sense you suggest, he'd have not added the "specially" clause. Bringing the full scope of Scripture to bear on this verse, the orthodox interpretation has been that God is Savior to all men potentially, but of believers effectually." - First off, I am not sure what God is potentially the saviour of all men means. God has the power to save them all but doesn't? God doesn't live up to His potential? I am not sure what you are saying there, but you basically just add the words potentially, which aren't there. - Second, the "specially" clause doesn't negate what he said earlier. Check out these other verses that use the same word translated "specially" Gal 6.10 - As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith. So we should potentially be good to all men, but in effect just to other Christians Phil 4.22 - All the saints salute you, chiefly (same Greek word) they that are of Caesar's household. All saints potentially salute you, but in effect just they that are of Caesar's household 1 Tim 5.8 - But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. So you should potentially provide for your own, but in effect just your own house. 2 Tim 4.13 - The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments. Potentially bring all the books, but really just bring the parchments. No, none of these suggest that the first statement is negated by the use of the word specially in the second statement. It just doesn't work that way. You also say "Bringing the full scope of Scripture to bear on this verse". What this really means is "this is how my theology interprets this verse. We already know that God doesn't save everyone, so this verse must mean... All of us do this (myself included). We try to cram the Word of God into our theology. We do not use the word "specially" to negate the phrase before it, and to suggest so is to cram the verse into existing theology. 2 Corinthians 5-18:19 I was focusing on verse 19 which says " God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself," not the us in verse 18 which is talking about followers. 1 Tim 2:4-6, Not sure what you are saying here. You keep mentioning orthodox interpretations, but I am not interested in orthodox interpretations. What does the Scripture say? Our orthodox interpretation is merely the tradition of men. And we have "word of God of none effect through your tradition". I don't mean to slam you personally, just that I am not concerned with what learned theologians have to say. Finally, Col 1:20, 1 John 4:14, and many others say the same thing. Basically God will reconcile all and Jesus is the saviour of the world or maybe the lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world, etc. |
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23 | Is Universalism Scriptural | Lev 16:34 | nicko715 | 198717 | ||
Hello Doc, Yes, 1 Cor 15 is talking about resurrection. That is the reconciliation with God. The wages of sin is death (Rom 6.23) which correlates with Gen when God tell Adam and Eve that their punishment will be death. All die because of Adam, but all will be made alive because of Christ. The other three are talking about when all creation acknowledges the authority of God. However, has His love for them now vanished? Is his anger and wrath greater than His love? At what point would you not accept your lost child returning to you (ie prodigal son)? God is interested in saving, not destroying. Once He has revealed Himself to all, we will all acknowledge and worship. God's love knows no boundaries. Anyway, a few other verses would be: 1 Tim 4.10 - For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 2 Cor 5.18-19 - And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 1 Tim 2.4-6 - Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. There are still more, but these are just a couple more. Nick |
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