Results 21 - 40 of 80
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Results from: Notes Author: Stultis the Fool Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | Things people THINK in the BIBLE but not | Bible general Archive 2 | Stultis the Fool | 126769 | ||
I am in no way a respector of persons, and I resent that you would question my capacities as a Christian because I am new to these forums. I am sorry, but children are not born with sin. If you would care to refute all that I wrote, I will gladly change my mind. However, since your argument hinges on interpretation of the word "likeness," despite obvious context, I will remain in disagreement with you. Additionaly, I am unsure as to what "Orthodox" opinion you believe prescribes original sin, but I quoted AMPLE scripture to the contrary. If all you can do is contradict plain scripture, then neither of us will benefit from any edification whatsoever. Thank you for provoking me to such thought as went into my last post. I am now more conviced than ever that original sin is a false contrivance founded in ignorance and covenant theology. I now see how week the argument for original sin is. I say sincerely, you have my gratitude. |
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22 | Things people THINK in the BIBLE but not | Bible general Archive 2 | Stultis the Fool | 126773 | ||
Psalm 14:1-3 says there are wicked men who have "turned aside" and do not "seek after God." It says nothing of birth and sin. Jeremiah 17:9, while it describes the heart of a sinner, says nothing of birth and sin. Romans 3:9-18 perpetuates this same concept of "turning aside" and does not speak of birth, and I can't see anything AT ALL that Romans 5:10-12 says regarding being born with sin. I am not denying that all have chosen to sin and thus die, and I most certainly advocate Christ as our One and Only Savior and our Propitiation for our Sins, but there is not one scripture that plainly explains that the Lord has created babies doomed to hell due to a lack of acceptance of the confession of Christ because of their "original sin." In fact, the scriptures instruct us in a number of places that the child will not suffer for the iniquity of the father. We choose to sin. Man does have a sinful nature, but that is not to say that man is a transgressor from birth. Again, all sin is transgression, and to transgress the Law in any point is to transgress the whole Law, and no murderer shall inherit the kingdom of God. Small children are incapable of confessing Christ, so strickening them with sin is to challenge them with a temptation they cannot bear. The bible also tells us that any who put a stumbling block before a child would profit himself to hang a rock from himself and cast himself into the "abyss." You believe God creates children with sin. If this is the case, shall the Lord not hang the millstone from His own neck? |
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23 | Allegory? | Bible general Archive 2 | Stultis the Fool | 126774 | ||
The creation states that the world was created in 7 days. The account given in Hebrews declares that we have not yet entered the seventh day. It also concludes us to be currently in the sixth day. What about that is not an allegory of the 7-day account of complete creation from the foundation of the world in Genesis? I base this conclusion on the text in Hebrews 3:5-4:11. The Author is presenting an allegory of creation for our instruction towards steadfastness in our salvation. Either that, or the Author is indicating unequivocaly that the creation did not occur in seven twenty-four hour "days." | ||||||
24 | Can I help you? | Bible general Archive 2 | Stultis the Fool | 126784 | ||
The Law of Moses was created to identify sin, and as a guide that we should not sin. Are you implying that God created the Law and then gave man no capacity to understand or keep it, even though he promises that if we keep it we will live? Free will is evident throughout the bible, and was the defining factor in Adam's sin. God told Adam to not eat the fruit. Adam chose to disobey (albeit after temptation). When it comes to sin, freewill DOES play the most important role. We are given the capacity to discern evil (the Law, the Spirit), as well as the capacity to master sin by mastering our flesh by walking after the spirit. We see the same thing evidenced again when Cain killed Abel. God came to Cain when he was angry at his brother and told him sin was crouching at his door. At that time, Cain could most certainly have chosen a righteous path (like Abel, or Abraham), but instead, he chose to murder his brother. I have read the scriptures you present, and each identifies well man's persistance in sin, and his sinful nature. However, for brevities sake, let us consider just one of them, representative of the rest, here Ephesians 2:3, "Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest." Paul also tells us in Romans 7:7, "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet." Again, lust is identified with sin, and lust is temptation. A child cannot be tempted with what he does not comprehend. I hear and understand and agree with man's sinful nature, even that he is created with a sinful nature, and this is the corruption that is inherrent to the flesh. However, this still does not quantify as "sin," which is a falling short of the mark. Again, Christ gives us the example of small children, proclaiming that we must become as they are. How can Christ attribute them so if they have fallen short of the mark? Also, when I say "Grace was not yet with us," I refer to the fact that the old covenant had not yet passed away, and that God's Law was not yet written on our hearts, and that Christ had not yet perished for our sins, and thus there was as yet no propitiation and as such no salvation by Grace through faith. Christ still made the correct choices regarding sin, despite his walk in the corrupt flesh of man. Again, I wish to point out that I advocate "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God," and I advocate Christ as Lord, as the Lamb of God and propitiation for our sins, but I do not advocate the birth of children with "sin." It is most definately safe to say that we are all born in a body of flesh desiring for sin, but it is innapropriate to attribute "sin" where there is none. This is wholly incorrect. Sin is the result of choice. we do not sin "accidentaly," else the words of God would be of none effect in 1 Corinthians 10:13 "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." Now, I have made a number of posts regarding this subject, and I have backed my argument with scripture. While many have shown me definitive scripture attesting to mans sinful nature, noone has shown me any scripture proffessing God created man not only of a corruptable body, but WITH sin. I have indicated many scriptures that indicate this is not true. Again, I most certainly accept man's sinful nature, but I can find no scripture that states unequivocaly that the particular sin of Adam, or anyone else for that matter, rests on all our shoulders; I have, however, shown scripture that states we must answer for none but our own sin. |
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25 | Unreasonable? | Bible general Archive 2 | Stultis the Fool | 126787 | ||
I agree with you. I do not seek to unmake the meaning of creation. I just wish to indicate the "grander scheme of God" illustrated in Hebrews does not convey the literal events of creation. I will also add that neither does such disprove them. My point being that use of the creation in allegory is not a wholly unnacceptable practice. Thank you for the input. |
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26 | Things people THINK in the BIBLE but not | Bible general Archive 2 | Stultis the Fool | 126792 | ||
I suppose he didn't create the most important baby either? Scripture Reference: the Gospels according to Mathew and Luke. Talk to any parent and see if they don't call their new child a "gift from God." Every good gift and every perfect gift is of God. Don't stumble about on shakey ground... the breath of life comes from God, and nowhere is life more abundant than in a newborn. It is quite obvious that the Lord creates men (and women). Read Romans 9:19-24. Anyway, is it your point that man is created of a corruptable flesh? If this is the case, I obviously have no issue with what you write, as we I agree completely. However, if it is your intention to prove that children bear the iniquity of the fathers, being born with sin, I must say that you are wrong. | ||||||
27 | marriage and masturbation. | Bible general Archive 2 | Stultis the Fool | 126794 | ||
It sounds like your father-in-law's advice ought to hold up nicely here. The scripture states that the "marriage bed" should be undefiled, but that is most definately figurative to the sanctity of your sex life, and obviously not descriptive of the literal "marriage bed." You should most definately "join together often" (and I suppose exactly how just hinges on what is practical) to avoid temptation. There is really no other pertinent scripture on the subject. I personally say: "Have at it..." but that is just my opinion. Also, I admire your bravery in posting on this difficult subject. | ||||||
28 | How do you explain? | Bible general Archive 2 | Stultis the Fool | 126796 | ||
Well, I suppose it is important to note that this definition is most definately situational. Paul calls such matter a "shadow" of things to come. While it does not seem appropriate to rest for 1000 years on the "sabath," I can also say that neither does not seem appropriate to rest for a mere 1000 years eternally, as per "My rest." At any rate, the intent of the Author is quite obvious. While it is "Today," figurative for every day before we enter eternity, we ought to behave like it is "Today," and when tommorrow, or "My rest" comes, we will be in a literal eternity, and nothing of the sort like a 24 hour day. |
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29 | Can I help you? | Bible general Archive 2 | Stultis the Fool | 126802 | ||
Hank, Thank you for the excellent reply. I obviously see those scriptures differently than you. I certainly understand why you believe what you believe, and I hate to dismiss this topic simply because of the "limitaitons" of this forum. Regarding Romans 5:12, it is easy for me to understand that "through one man, sin entered the world." After all, someone had to sin first, right? However, I will point out that all that applies to is the introduction of sin. Just like through one God Man entered the world. Man wasn't here, and then he was. Seems to me to be the same case with sin in 9:12. 5:18 is similar, sin was here, so God passed judgement, where there was none before. Gods judgement concluded all had transgressed the Law (transgression; an act, not an accident or happenstance), and thus came condemnation. Besides, we have a just God, and where there is sin there must also be justice (reap what you so, etc.). 5:19 The one man's disobedience was directly linked to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. With knowledge of good and evil comes the capacity for sin (the Law tells us so). With the Law, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. It is not to hard to swallow that we are all "sinners." I must point out again that original sin directly contradicts Ezekial 18:18 through 18:20 as well as 1 Corinthians 10:13, and a number of other versus I have brought up in posts on this thread. Now, we know that God isn't going to contradict himself (same yesterday, today, etc.), so there must be a rational explanation for this contradiction. If man is brought into this world of a corruptable flesh with a sinful nature, well, there is a fine, scriptural explanation for this seeming ambiguity. Otherwise, I am unsure of how to explain the situation. I will point out again that, due to obvious contradiction, "original sin" cannot be the answer. As far as "orthodoxy" goes, I will gladly point out that just because something has been taught for a long time does not make it correct. We don't need to look very far to see this in application (wether secular or religious). |
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30 | Unreasonable? | Bible general Archive 2 | Stultis the Fool | 126804 | ||
Regarding the creation and those travelling through the wilderness, the Author points out that God said, of the people, in His anger, they shall not "enter My rest." The author explains that God is reffering to His rest on the 7th day of creation, and relates it as a goal we should all try to attain. The Author then points out that after the forty years, Joshua led the people, but he was unable to lead them to God's "Rest." Therefore, the Author concludes that since Joshua was unable to take the people to God's "Rest," it must yet still be "Today," referencing the Sixth day of creation. He adds that while it is "Today," we (Christians) should act accordingly to a people trying to enter His "Rest." Now, under these circumstances, the 6th and 7th days of creation are not literal 24 hour periods, but are instead allegorized to reflect our lot in life "Today," as well as our ultimate destination tommorrow. There is a little more to it, but my brain is a little too tired to think. I hope this helps. |
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31 | This post is restricted. What gives? | Bible general Archive 2 | Stultis the Fool | 126811 | ||
How much you want to bet "restrictedness" does not solve any problems, and does not foster an outcome that will develope a Church that is of "one mind" and in "accord." I do gamble :P | ||||||
32 | The Doctrines Please? | Bible general Archive 2 | Stultis the Fool | 127442 | ||
Perhaps a comprehensive list would be a good thing. I am sure that one can be gleaned from a search of topics that have been restricted, especially considering the following: "These threads get blocked from appearing but do not get users banned (unless the user exclusively writes about topics of this sort)." Finally, I wonder why there isn't a page specifically spotlighting currently restricted topics. I personally feel that if the issue is that debateable, a concerted effort, even if it takes 2000 more years, should be made to discover the truth. |
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33 | The Doctrines Please? | Bible general Archive 2 | Stultis the Fool | 127454 | ||
It was not my intention to be sarcastic with the post you refer to. If there are issues which should not be exclusively debated, I would like to know what they are. In response to your questions: "What is your motivate? What do you want to accomplish?" My motivation is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he gave us commandment. This being said, I seek to learn the truth regarding God's word. I know that prophecy is not a matter of private interperetation, so I try the spirits and test what I know. If I am in error, I will be corrected, and I have gained truth. If I am correct, I will be assured, and I can perhaps help another. In addition, I came here hoping to be exhorted. I will add that I intend in no way for any of my preceding type to be taken as sarcasm, and it is my sincere desire that my intentions bear genuine fruit. |
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34 | Why not? | OT general | Stultis the Fool | 126951 | ||
For scripture, read my post below... "Thoughts?" | ||||||
35 | Searching for the truth | NT general Archive 1 | Stultis the Fool | 128069 | ||
Excellent thoughts, Norm! | ||||||
36 | 7 twenty-four hour periods? | Gen 1:5 | Stultis the Fool | 126747 | ||
Perhaps you are correct. Thank you for the input! Perhaps you would glean some information reading my post ID#126699 reproduced here. Follow the ID# to see the rest of the thread for context. "How then do you explain Paul's description of "Sabaths" or "Holy Days" in Colosians 2:16 and 17 when compared to the Author of Hebrews explanation of the creation of man and God's rest found in Hebrew's 3:5 through 4:11. Here (Hebrews) the author thoroughly explains that "God's rest", or the 7th day of creation, is something we strive to enter, and while it is "Today", which, by intent, we can surmise must refer to the 6th day, we should strive to enter "God's rest." Either the author is allegorizing the 7 days of creation, or else he is displaying quite literally that the 6th and 7th days of creation were no more 24 hour periods than the first 4 days. In either case, something is debunked here: 24 hour creaction period following day four OR allegory not being present in the creation. Again, I find Paul's refference to "shadows" lends great credance to this concept." |
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37 | How do you explain? | Gen 1:31 | Stultis the Fool | 127178 | ||
Isaiah 27:1 concurs that Job speaks of the devil: "In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea." The Hebrew concurs that this word as well is referring to the "fleeing" serpent. | ||||||
38 | How do you explain? | Gen 1:31 | Stultis the Fool | 127180 | ||
Thank you for the reply! I will certainly agree that Man is condemned because he does not obey the will of God. However, there are a great many scriptures that will support the belief that the flesh is corrupt; Pauls Epistle to the Romans is riddled with the concept. View chapter 7 in particular, but you will also find reference in Peters 1st epistle and Corinthians will provide ample additional witness. As well, there are ample scriptures to support that God creates man. Aditionaly, Psalm 51 predicates itself with the concept. Man sins because he is corrupt. You have not adequately explained the scriptures I quoted, and you have not substantiated your opinion with scripture. Additionaly, you claim that if God created evil, that would make Him responsible for the death of His own Son, but I tell you plainly, that God was most directly responsible for the death of Christ (something you claim to be evil), or have you never read that "...God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son..." Please, explain your position in light of the scriptures I have quoted. |
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39 | How do you substantiate your answere? | Gen 1:31 | Stultis the Fool | 127222 | ||
Angel, thank you for the reply! However, I find your reply to be riddled with opinions concerning the traditional origin of Satan which is a contestable subject and nowhere scripturally verifyable. Please read more on the subject before you definitively attribute such authority to Isaiah Chapter 14. I will answere your your questions: "You may choose to contest and to reject Scripture--you have that right given to you by God--but refusing to allow the Holy Spirit to enlighten you is not a wise and obedient act!" I agree with you. Now I will add that I am vexed to think that you believe my unacceptance of the traditional view that Isaiah chapter 14 refers to Satan somehow makes me disobedient to God. Thank you for pointing to the splinter in my eye! Now consider the mote in yours. "Proverbs tells us that there isn’t a good woman among a thousand--do you believe that?" YES "Jesus tells us that John is Elijah; yet John tells us that he is not, who do you believe?" JESUS "God tells us that in Him there is no sin/evil--do you believe God?" YES "Do you believe God to be petty and drunk on power?" NO "Well you must since you are convinced that He created evil: nothing escapes God’s power, for Him to create a nemesis it would be for the simple joy of the hunt!" You make an uninformed assumption. Have you read Job 1:8? "Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job?..." Have you read 1 Kings 22:19-23 "Micaiah said, "Therefore, hear the word of the LORD. I saw the LORD sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by Him on His right and on His left. The LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said this while another said that. Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.' The LORD said to him, 'How?' And he said, 'I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' Then He said, 'YOU ARE TO ENTICE HIM AND ALSO PREVAIL.' Go and do so.' Now therefore, behold, the LORD has put a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; and the LORD has proclaimed disaster against you." "Again, we must be careful how we read Scripture… we simply cannot grab something and indiscriminately run with it stating all sorts of twisted half truths" I agree. "Show me in Scripture where it is stated that God created evil and that God created Satan!" ISAIAH 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." "Sometimes a serpent is just a serpent… have you thought of the possibility that Job 23:13 is merely speaking of the slithering snakes/serpents?" Yes, but I do not believe that to be the case. "As far as Ecclesiastes (a pessimistic view of life devoid of hope) 7:13, have you considered a crooked road, tree, branch, river, island, mountain, precipice, spinal column?" Look up the word "crooked" in a KJV concordance and see for yourself how many times it is used to describe wickedness. I will add more scripture to the long list I have already given you: Exodus 32:10-14 "Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation. Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation. And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand? Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people. Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever. And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people." Thank you for your concluding words of encouragement. However, I must dontinue to disagree with you because of what the scripture says, as well as your lack of presentation of substantial information. What you present is assumptive and based most specifically on inference, while the scriptures I read and quote are specific, demonstrative, and quite contrary to what you advocate. To conclude, and to avoid the knee-jerking that seems to precipitate based on assumptions of my beliefs, I feel it neccesary to make this disclaimer: I DO NOT BELIEVE GOD IS EVIL. |
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40 | How do you explain? | Gen 1:31 | Stultis the Fool | 127226 | ||
What difference does all that make? I assure you that just as it was the intent of the Law to condemn all unrighteousness, it was also the intent of the Law that the Lamb of God be sacrificed. Consider the prphecy of Isaiah 53:10 "Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand." I agree that the Lord did not "murder" His Son, but He was ultimately responsible for the death (or sacrifice, if you like). |
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