Results 201 - 220 of 494
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Results from: Notes Author: stjones Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
201 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | stjones | 68580 | ||
LOL! Hank, you are incorrigible - or incurable - or incorruptible - or something. Indy |
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202 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | stjones | 68574 | ||
Hi, Don; If I am anti-intellectual by your standards, I will be happy to stand with 2,000 years of other anti-intellectuals who, like me, have failed to find in the Bible the same novel view of marriage that you have uncovered. You string words together well, but it will take more than cleverly worded speculation to overthrow two millenia of orthodox Christian thought. Incidentally, I suggested the passage in Proverbs because, having studied philosophy in both undergraduate and graduate school, I have learned some of the shortcomings of approaching the Bible as if it were just another text. Sometimes it's necessary to set the intellectualizing aside and simply listen to the Holy Spirit. The Bible isn't a philosophical work, it's the revealed wisdom of the God. Its goal is not to develop a system of metaphysics and ethics; its goal is to reveal the character of God and to bring people to faith in Jesus. Its purpose is spiritual, not intellectual. Its deepest meaning cannot be apprehended by mere human reason. See 1 Corinthians 2:6-16. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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203 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | stjones | 68520 | ||
Hi, Don; You said: "What exactly, may I ask, is your point in twisting my statement into something that I was not saying? I am simply perplexed about your motives, that's all" It was you who compared "multiplying women" to "multiplying horses" and you who mentioned pride in wealth in the context of having multiple wives. I don't blame you for backing off somewhat. You said "As to your statement that I claimed to know of a declaration made by God that polygamy was His perfect ideal for marriage is a fabrication" I made no such statement; I challenged you to find Scripture rather than speculation to back your assertion that Adam just got short-changed when he was only given one wife. As for your comments about David, it is foolishness to assume that David's example is normative. When Jesus taught about marriage, he didn't point to David as his example, he pointed to Adam and Eve (one man, one woman). I'm afraid that being "well schooled in philosophy" has blinded you to God's word. Understanding the Bible is less dependent on the ability to "lay out the facts and rationally paint a picture by what is given" than on the ability to discern the character of God. I suggest that is the meaning Proverbs 3:5-6: "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight" Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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204 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | stjones | 68321 | ||
You said "... the use of the verses dealing with a man multiplying wives to himself is also a common blunder made by many. The same context deals with a man multiplying horses and chariots to himself. Are we then to assume that it is wrong for a man to own more than one horse, or more than one car chariot)? Not so. The idea of multiplying women, horses and chariots had to do with pride in one's wealth" IMHO, this statement invalidates your entire argument. If you actually believe that a wife is a woman owned by a man to show off his wealth, then you clearly have no idea of what Biblical marriage actually is. You said "It is my thought that we would do better to abstain from pitting God's word against itself and read it for what it says. ... Any of us can weave a doctrinal tapestry by pulling verses out of context. The REAL challenge is keeping that tapestry from unraveling when pulling on the many wild threads hanging loose." I agree; you have demonstrated the difficulty. Please cite a passage that represents "God's clear teaching" that the perfect relationship ordained in the Garden was not normative. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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205 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | stjones | 68320 | ||
Nice try, kalos. We know what you meant. ;-) Indy (married 28 years to one woman) |
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206 | do we have any free will? | Bible general Archive 1 | stjones | 68305 | ||
Rob (and others - you know who you are); Someday we're going to get together in Heaven and have a good laugh at ourselves. I have a feeling that once we meet Jesus face to face and see how big God really is, our disagreements, our confidence in our own understanding, and, yes, our hurt feelings are going to look just plain silly. Faithful, earnest, even passionate - but just a little foolish when examined in the light of that divine reality. I expect that, like Job, we'll all say "I was talking about things I did not understand, things far too wonderful for me. ... I had heard about you before, but now I have seen you with my own eyes. I take back everything I said, and I sit in dust and ashes to show my repentance." (Job 42:3-6, NLT) But in the meantime, let me tell you what was wrong with your last post.... :-) Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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207 | do we have any free will? | Bible general Archive 1 | stjones | 68286 | ||
Ooops; I meant Joe, not Hank. Same comments apply. Indy |
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208 | do we have any free will? | Bible general Archive 1 | stjones | 68285 | ||
Greetings, Rob; I hope you don't carry through on your intention to not post anymore. Disclaimer: I don't speak for Hank or anyone else here. I hope you understand that there have been some very long threads with some very strange doctrines advocated with great passion but scant Biblical foundation. I think that has produced an air of argumentation where there is more often a spirit of healthy discourse. It does get a little rough and tumble sometimes. Probably more so than is altogether pleasing to our Lord (and I am as guilty as anyone here). Still, when "iron sharpens iron", some sparks are bound to fly. Anyway, I've enjoyed your posts. You seem to be a thoughtful and reasonable sort of chap, if just a little thin-skinned. :-) I hope you'll stick around and continue to bless us with your thoughts. Incidentally, Hank and I have been on opposite sides of some questions and on the same side of others. I assure you his bark is much worse than his bite and he's always worth listening to. Well, most of the time.... :-) Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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209 | Why is marijuana use prohibited? | Heb 13:17 | stjones | 68138 | ||
Greetings, jini; I have to admit your misuse of Scripture is interesting: 1) There is no place in the Bible that prohibits speeding in school zones, private ownership of bazookas and grenade launchers, or practicing medicine without a license. Nonetheless, I think it's safe to say that Christians generally support laws prohibiting such things. Are we to assume based on your "argument from silence" that you are an advocate of them? 2) Cannabis is also known as hemp; perhaps God intended it only for rope-making and we have chosen to misuse it; we do have a history of that. Otherwise, we must believe that God meant for man to be more or less perpetually stoned on marijuana, hashish, heroin, mescaline, cocaine, and psilocybin. This leads to the enivitable question, why would a loving God combine mescaline with strychnine in the peyote cactus? 3) You object to "ignorant" and "apathetic" churches quoting irrelevant Scripture in their opposition to recreational drug use. Yet you don't hesitate to surgically remove Isaiah 10:1 from its context to support your opinion. Perhaps you could read chapter 9 and the rest of 10 to get some idea of what Isaiah was talking about. I assure you he was not complaining that poor people and widows were not being allowed to get high. 4) Your statement that "Jesus told us to visit people in prison, not to put them there" is just plain silly. Did he say to close the prisons? Did he say to eliminate civil law? or to ignore it at will? No; he said to visit those who are paying the price for their disobedience to man's laws, recognizing that we are all prisoners of our own disobedience to God's law. 5) Likewise, your expropriation of Colossians 2:21 to invalidate civil law is proof-texting of the worst sort - especially if you would have us believe Paul was railing against laws that interfere with sensual pleasure (v. 23). If you have not read the entire Bible to get a sense of what it's all about, I suggest you do so. If you have and you deliberately misapply Scripture to promote Hedonism then you really should be ashamed of yourself. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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210 | Is God's will prosperity/healing always? | Rom 8:28 | stjones | 67814 | ||
Hi, Hank; Thanks for the encouragement. It's such a simple thing - God owes me nothing; I owe him everything. God is indeed sovereign, so the word "claim" is especially troubling in this context. I can only claim something that I am entitled to by right of ownership or a debt I am owed. I won't even ask why your PCUSA membership is past tense. If you've kept up, you can imagine that I'm somewhat at odds with denominational leadership. But it was a faithful congregation that I now serve as a Deacon and soon as an Elder that that led me to Christ, so it looks like I'll work to reform from within. God's blessings to you too. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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211 | Is God's will prosperity/healing always? | Rom 8:28 | stjones | 67768 | ||
Greetings EdB; Thanks for your kind words. The older I get, the simpler the Gospel becomes. And yet the subtleties of these riches continue to grow. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones P.S. I hope there's a coffee shop in Heaven where denizens of this forum can get together and get acquainted. |
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212 | Is God's will prosperity/healing always? | Rom 8:28 | stjones | 67715 | ||
Greetings, Graceful; WRT to healing, it's also worthwhile to ask why Jesus healed the people he did. Was it to relieve their discomfort? Or was it to establish his identity and set an example of compassion and service? This is not the same as asking for "signs and wonders". In John 9, for example, when Jesus healed the man blind since birth. The man didn't even ask for healing; Jesus healed him anyway. Jesus' explanation - '"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life."' - says very clearly that his being born blind was God's will. Subsequent events make it even clearer that the purpose of the healing was to teach, not to make the man feel better (though I'm sure he did). The end result was a teaching about spiritual blindness that got the man thrown out of the temple! And was God's "failure" to relieve Paul of his thorn a cold refusal to heal him? Or was it, as Paul said, the means to show that God's grace is sufficient - not necessarily to heal, but to overcome? And why are there no examples of people coming to Jesus and asking for worldly wealth? Surely there was no shortage of greedy people; surely somebody would have taken a chance. Instead, Jesus preached freedom from the bondage of desiring worldly things. The problem with "name it and claim it" is that it is we who do the naming. It is we who decide what we want and what's best for us. This is not submitting our will to God's, it is turning God into a cosmic vending machine - one that doesn't even require a coin! It's not sufficient to claim that our will aligns with God's. To do so is to assert a perfection that humans cannot attain in this life. God's thoughts are not our thoughts; how shall we claim to think his thoughts after him? Job is great example. He was "blameless" in God's eyes, yet he suffered terribly. Yes, he was restored to health and wealth, but his first ten children remained dead. In fact, one of the clear messages of Job is that prosperity theology is wrong. Job's friends preached it to him and God was angry with them for doing so. We live in fallen bodies in a fallen world. Christians should understand that better than anybody. Acquiring health and wealth are cheap victories. Overcoming sickness and poverty and living a life pleasing to God in spite of them - this is the victory for which Jesus equips us. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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213 | Teacher, when were the 11 rebaptized? | Romans | stjones | 67155 | ||
Hi, Teacher; Glad you stuck around. Joel: "All who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved", quoted by Peter in his Pentecost sermon. Note "all who call upon the name of the Lord" without any additional qualification. Can we agree to disagree while conceding that neither one of us has God all figured out? Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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214 | Teacher, when were the 11 rebaptized? | Romans | stjones | 67148 | ||
Hi, Teacher; Well, don't go on my account. I don't speak for the rest of the forum. Note: condemnation is for unbelief, not unbaptism. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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215 | Teacher, when were the 11 rebaptized? | Romans | stjones | 67138 | ||
Teacher; You said "You feel I am being closed minded and hard hearted". And I guess my note sounded that way; I apologize. But I didn't miss the point. My point was that Paul's admonition applies to anyone who still doesn't "get" baptism, whether that someone is you or Tim or me. You ask for a passage that specifically calls baptism a work. There is none. I ask you for a passage that specifically says no one who is not baptized will be saved. There is none. So Christians are left to study the Bible and seek to understand and apply what it says. You may imagine that Paul would find your views to be "mature". Based on what Paul wrote about salvation, I disagree. Further, Paul - having demonstrated his own spiritual maturity - had earned the right to admonish Christians as he did. You have not; neither have I. I am afraid that you have missed the point of this forum and the community it represents. We have not been sitting around waiting for you to explain the Bible to us; you take your handle "Teacher" entirely too seriously. Many of us have spent a fair amount of time reading and studying the Bible and discussing it with other believers, some of them right here. There are members of this forum who have, over time, clearly demonstrated their wisdom and maturity. They have also demonstrated willingness to engage in thoughtful, respectful dialog with people who disagree with them. Dialog means more than simply pushing a view. It also means paying attention to the points raised by the other person and providing a response beyond a mere re-hashing of previous claims. Which brings me to your example of the demons. Faith is not just believing that Jesus' claims were true. Faith is recognizing our own unworthiness and trusting in Jesus for our salvation - trusting to the extent of exchanging our lives for his. The demons didn't do that. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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216 | Teacher, when were the 11 rebaptized? | Romans | stjones | 67011 | ||
Teacher; 'Paul says that "instruction about baptisms, laying on of hands, etc." are "elementary teachings". Anyone who has been studying God's word for any length of time should have learned of these and gone "on to maturity".' Quite so, as Tim and others have demonstrated. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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217 | Is baptism a work? | NT general Archive 1 | stjones | 66643 | ||
Greetings, friend charis; Thank you for your kind words and encouragement. As for being a '"mere" Chrisitan', that's about as high an earthly title as I could aspire to. Don't stay up too late. ;-) Peace and grace, Indy |
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218 | Is baptism a work? | NT general Archive 1 | stjones | 66633 | ||
I hope I never feel that I have mastered God and his Truth. | ||||||
219 | Is baptism a work? | NT general Archive 1 | stjones | 66631 | ||
Hi, Teacher; I had hoped you might see that I have indeed spent considerable time studying this and discussing it with others. I thought you might have new insight on the issues I raised. Thanks just the same. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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220 | Is baptism a work? | NT general Archive 1 | stjones | 66574 | ||
Hi, Teacher, Yes, you did come up with some preposterous examples. But you avoided responding to the ones I provided which deal specifically with salvation apart from baptism. The passage in Acts was Acts 16:29-31. As I said in the original post, it answers the question "what must I do to be saved?": "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved". End of answer. Baptism is not part of the answer; it is part of the jailer's response to the answer. But I have another problem which I mentioned in another post. Is there any example anywhere in the Bible of someone baptizing himself or herself? No; not even Jesus baptized himself. Baptism requires the participation of another person. If baptism is a prerequisite for salvation then God is unwilling or unable to save without human assistance. This is clearly contrary to the whole of Scripture. Please respond to this point. And please comment on the passage in Joel 2, the thief on the cross, and Peter's quoting of Joel 2 at Pentecost. Joel said "all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved". No mention of baptism. The thief called on the name of Lord and was saved. No baptism. If Joel's words - confirmed by the thief's experience - were not applicable, why did Peter quote them in his speech? Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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