Results 141 - 155 of 155
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Results from: Notes Author: bowler Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
141 | How Far Are We To Suffer For Christ? | 1 Pet 4:16 | bowler | 206778 | ||
remorse2 Thank you for your most graceful answer. The reason I asked the question is because I have been coming across other Christians who are facing circumstances where they would have to choose between having a nice life living the way they are and truning around and obeying Christ instead. If some of them, not all of them, were to do this they would have to leave evertything behind that they have worked so hard to have and their lives would definitely be ruined. Some of these cricumstances are life style arrangements and are not suffering for the sake of proclaiming the gospel. Others have been attacked out in the street and some fought and some didn't. As a Christian it is hard to know what to do becuase the laws of society say you can defend yourself, but the Bible says turn the other cheek. That sounds like a no brainer on the surface, just obey the Bible, but if we take Romans 13 as part of obeying the Bible, it is possible to consider defending yourself. Of course I would take the Bible over the law as long as I didn't break the law, but others may not see it that way. So its not really from my perspective that I am asking, but that I know people who either will have to choose to suffer to follow Christ, or who choose not to suffer for Christ and obeyed the law, but disobeyed Christ. By the way, your profile does not contain your email! :) blessings abound, bowler |
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142 | How Far Are We To Suffer For Christ? | 1 Pet 4:16 | bowler | 206826 | ||
Val I must respectuly say that I am confused about your post to me. I don't think I have all the answers and am the only one who is on track. If you would realy like to know the circumstances that occassion that comment please just ask, these are people I know personally and as far as they are concerned their lives would be ruined by "turning around and sinning no more" as they put it. What I have tried to do in my post is not volunteer information that is so specific as to make the question have to be about a specific narrow paritcular subject as I know three people with different life situations this would apply to. In the name of blessed Jesus, why would you say to me that I have a Pharisee atitude? I will qualify my statment in the first paragraph for you - No, I am not saying Christ does not provide a nice life. I am saying once you have built your entire life, your house, your family, your job, on things that are the direct result of sin - if you then turn around and walk away from the sin that is the direct source of keeping these things, in obedience to Christ, you may have to be required give up the house, parts of the family, the job - and that could ruin your life. That is what my friends are saying to me, not me, but them. Christ may very well give them "a nice life" sometime afterwards, Christ is good, Christ is great. That does not mean these people will not at first have ruined lives and suffer for a long time before Christ rebuilds their lives. Hence the "suffering for Christ", hence the "ruined life". You seem to leave out the part where I say there are different ways to look at suffering and that the law could also be being obedient to Christ and that others may see things differently. Your post to me seems to be implying by your scriptures that I am standing in judgment of others and am a hypocrite, which I most respectfully and most certainly am not. Ephesians 4:3 being diligent to perserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. blessings abound, bowler blessings abound, bowler |
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143 | How Far Are We To Suffer For Christ? | 1 Pet 4:16 | bowler | 206841 | ||
Azure Thank you for your post. Now perhaps you mihgt see that this is exactly why I did not choose to outline exactly what the circumstances were? It leads more to friction here with the saints over whether or not I am judging anyone by simply asking a question about how one would apply the scripture about suffering for Christ, rather than pointing to the real thrust of my question. I was not in the first post, or any other querying about my friends sinful lives. I was querying about what it means to "suffer for Christ", how far should one go? At what cost? No one can tell who realy is a Christian, we don't know who sincerely asked for forgivness of Jesus based on whether or not they sin, or how long they stay in it. As I tried to say, one's life can be "ruined" for a period of time if they walk away from "parts of family", house, job. Suffering for Christ is something we all face. I was merely quoting my friends, not making a Biblical point as if a Christians life is "ruined by Christ". I also mentioned that Christ will restore after a while, I qualified this statment before. By asking the question I seem to be seen as thinking that I have all the answers, nothing could be further from the truth, as I stated three times now, in the love of Christ and with as much grace as I can - I do not think I know better than others and have better or the only answer. In and for the love of Christ Jesus and in the interested of Christian grace and having our conversation edifying and with "salt" I will be happy to hear from everyone on the matter, but choose not to continue from my side on this matter. blessings abound, bowler |
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144 | Verse For Testing Leaders? | 1 John 4:1 | bowler | 206407 | ||
quvmoh Thank you. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 seems to come closest, test everything. I seem to be stuck here looking for something along the lines of test a candidate for leadership. Maybe I am looking at this thing all wrong and I shoud just look at the qualifications for leadership that one must live up to understanding that these would be criteria for a test. I seem to be searching for something that is not there, a verse to use as a basis to test one for becoming a leader. blessings abound, bowler |
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145 | Did God create evil? | 3 John 1:11 | bowler | 207902 | ||
Flinty Joe Please take the time to read the following post numbers in order scrolling down - 2, 3, 8 - all by Doc, and 5 by Kalos - you will find these by typing the word "theodicy" in the upper right hand corner in the search function. Doc and Kalos make a great big dent in answering your concerns here as your questions fall under the area of study called theodicy. I particularly like the part where Doc addresses the issue of that God has provided for us to know "what to do", but has absolutely no reason or responsibility toward us to provide a "why things are so". Job 38:1-15 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said, "Who is this that darkens counsel By words without knowledge? "Now gird up your loins like a man, And I will ask you, and you instruct Me! "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding, Who set its measurements? Since you know. Or who stretched the line on it? "On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy? "Or who enclosed the sea with doors When, bursting forth, it went out from the womb; When I made a cloud its garment And thick darkness its swaddling band, And I placed boundaries on it And set a bolt and doors, And I said, 'Thus far you shall come, but no farther; And here shall your proud waves stop'? "Have you ever in your life commanded the morning, And caused the dawn to know its place, That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, And the wicked be shaken out of it? "It is changed like clay under the seal; And they stand forth like a garment. "From the wicked their light is withheld, And the uplifted arm is broken. blessings abound, bowler |
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146 | Did God create evil? | 3 John 1:11 | bowler | 207975 | ||
Doc Thanks for that. blessings abound, bowler |
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147 | Best commentary on Revelation? | Revelation | bowler | 206314 | ||
Gbzones I would agree that you need the Holy Spirit to understand the passage of Revelation or any other passage. However, it would be wise to stop and consider that the theologians who were mentioned as having given commentary on the subject of Revelation took a tremendous amount of time doing the very thing you point out, praying to have the scriptures illuminated to them by the Holy Spirit. Many of them udoubtedly incorporate what the other scriptures would have to say about Revelation as that is part of writing good commentary. Not having studied it to as great a length, how do we then do we say that those who have studied such things at great length, have not arrived at the truth without studying both the Bible and their work at length to say such things of them? The studying of the various works of commentators is not about a confusion of interpretations, each one has taken the time to do the excursions into the arts of exegesis and hermeneutics to arrive at his conclusion. We should endeavor to do the same to the best of our abilities in both our own private study of Revelation and in reading their works. The criteria for determining the truth, as you call it, or the meaning, as I would call it, of Revelation should be a thorough examination of the scriptures to arrive at the meaning. I think the term truth is a little off the mark here as appplying that to the conclusions of these men, as all scripture is truth and studying it is the garnering of the meaning of it. What we try to do in studying it is to arrive at the meaning of that truth. I have a question for you, and this is not to foster ill will, nor is it for argumentation sake. What does Genesis have to do with interpreting Revelation other than to understand the fall? What other clues could one garner from Genesis that could possibly help us understand Revelation? It seems, though perhaps only to me, that Daniel would yeild more clues about Revelation than any other book. For your consideration. blessings abound, bowler |
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148 | Were all names once in the book of life? | Rev 3:5 | bowler | 206237 | ||
Doc Interesting url, trying to see how it answers whether or not the names of the wicked were ever in the book, or just the elect? Perhaps you have more links? Truly interested in this. Enjoyed all your other links and thread numbers so far. blessings abound, bowler |
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149 | Were all names once in the book of life? | Rev 3:5 | bowler | 206286 | ||
Doc I am well aware and understand the doctrine of election as being that God elects those whom He has foreknown and predestined to be saved. I will read all that theologian Aruthur Pink has to say on the matter simply because you suggested it and because I am interested in what this man is teaching that you admire so much in an effort to see how the book of life is just a metaphor. I would like to take the Bible literaly as much as possible and do not see how the book of life is a metaphor, although I believe other things in Revelation are figurative language for real things and events. Honest question not meant to foster a debate - If we do not take the book of life as being a literal book, then what is to prevent us from taking the lake of fire figuratively? However, I will also read Arthur Pink on this. blessings abound, bowler |
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150 | Were all names once in the book of life? | Rev 3:5 | bowler | 206300 | ||
Doc With all due respect to both you and to Arthur Pink the very great and respected theologian by many and now by me I am having trouble with his concept that the book of life is truly a figure of speech. Now, this is submitted in the spirit of a desire to arrive at a literal interpretation of the Bible and is not meant to be sent to you by way of starting argument or debate. This is just an obeservation on what the immenent theologian Aruthur Pink wrote on the subject at hand. Aruthur Pink 3. Its Grand Original, http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Election/election.htm Pink writes - This expression "the Book of Life" has its roots in Isaiah 4:3, wherein God refers to His chosen remnant as "every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem," and it is this which explains the meaning of all the later references thereto. God’s eternal act of election is spoken of as writing the names of His chosen ones in the Book of Life, and the following things are suggested by this figure. First, the exact knowledge which God has of all the elect, His particular remembrance of them, His love for and delight in them. Second, that His eternal election is one of particular persons whose names are definitely recorded by Him. Third, to show they are absolutely safe and secure, for God having written their names in the Book of Life, they shall never be blotted out (Rev. 3:5). Isaiah 4:3 is not the first reference to the book of life in the Bible as the roots of that concept as Pink states. Exodus gives us the roots and the first account of a book owned by God that contains the names of those belonging to God – Exodus 32:32, 33, and it is not in that scripture a figure of speech as it is in Isaiah. The next account is Psalm 69:28 which specifically says the words the book of life and that the wicked shall not be recorded with the righteous. According to Moses account we cannot assume that the book is merely figurative because the words written and scrolls are used, similar things can be said of Psalm 69, as is true in Revelation in several places concerning the book and names being written. Pink gives no scriptural reasoning for why the book of life should be considered to be a figure other than the wording in Isaiah 4:3, and based on that one scripture, he calls it a figure. There is no reason to question that the book of life is the Lamb’s Book of Life based on the collection of scriptures on the subject. I will not get into here the various things I saw that I do not quite agree with that Pink says about election. Nothing major, like sovereignty, but various observations about process as he describes it. Respectfully and in the Spirit of Christians fellow ship, blessings abound, bowler |
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151 | Were all names once in the book of life? | Rev 3:5 | bowler | 206329 | ||
Doc I would like to take as my priciple that where the Bible leaves us no choice but to take something figuratively, like when Jesus says eat my flesh, and drink my blood - in other words when the Bible is clear that it is making an anaology then it is. But where ever we can take the Bible literaly we should take it literaly when it is being straight forward. If we don't do this then things like the lake of fire could be an analogy also. Jesus mentioned this book of life as well as others. I went and borrowed the book from an elder that you mentioned some time ago and have yet to return it. I agree that we need to interpret Biblical literature according to its Biblical genre. I agree with Gordon D. Fee and Douglas Stuart the following - How To Study The Bible For All Its Worth, by Gordon D. Fee and Douglas Stuart, page 202 - Upon reflection, one can see that Paul is driving at an anaology. He is saying, in effect, "That the rock was to them as Christ is to us - a source of sustenance in the same way Christ at his tables sustains us." Paul's language is metaphorical. We, however, are not simply inspired writers of the Scripture. What Paul did we are not authorized to do. The allegorical connections he was inspired to find between the Old Testament and the New Testament are trustworthy. But nowhere does the scripture say to us, "Go do likewise." However I disagree with Gordon D. Fee's statement, as he is the NT writer and as Douglas Stuart is the OT writer in compiling information for their joint book, that - pages 262 through 263 - The fall of Rome in chapter 18 seems to appear as the first chapter in the final wrap-up, and many words or ideas that also imply the final judgment are interlaced with words or ideas that also imply the final end as part of the picture. Here we have the writers of the book, How To Read The Bible For All Its Worth, taking the fall of Rome as being the fulfillment of prophecy, without qualifying that John unequivocaly meant Rome to be the object of the scripture, thus relegating John's description to John's knowledge of Rome as an oppressor, rather than on John simply recounting what he is being told to recount as it states in chapter one he is doing. They go on to say the following - 1. We need to learn that the pictures of the future are just that - pictures. The picture expresses the reality, but are not themselves to be confused with reality, nor are the details of every picture necessarily to be "fulfilled" in some specific way. Thus when the first four trumpets proclaim calamities on nature as a part of God's judgment, we must not neccessarily expect a literal fulfillment of all of these details of these pictures. The question must raise at this point of what the nature of prophecy is - is it a depiction of future real events in figurative language, or is it pictures of the future that do not have to come true in the details because they are only pictures? There is not one prophecy of scripture that has not come true, however picturesque the language may have been, the details all did come true. Now, here for me, becomes a problem of interpretation, where the authors of the book declare that we cannot take the liscence to take scriptures and be "inspired" to redefine terms, or draw analogies, or to render certain uncertain aspect, or to render all things in a prophetic presentation in scripture to be pictures that may not come true in their parts. Paul can and Jesus can and even John could, but we cannot. They themselves now take prophecy, call them pictures of the future and declare that we cannot expect them to come true in a specifc way as described by scripture. While we can probably all agree that Revelation uses figurative language, the authors do not seem to quite agree that the prophecies clothed in figurative language will come true as to the details promised in the Revelation. I find this somewhat objectionable and do not see the difference between this view and taking "inspired liscence" in redifining what prohpecy is in scripture. But I found what you presented as your own understandings and the links to be most engaging and interesting reading and have most thoroughly enjoyed your posts on this subject and on others. I happily agree to disagree with you on this and would like to end the discussion from my end, but would not mind at all hearing more from you or anyone else on it and would receive it. blessings abound, bowler |
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152 | Were all names once in the book of life? | Rev 3:5 | bowler | 206332 | ||
Doc I do hope I have not offended you in some way, but I respect if you are done, no need to reply. blessings abound, bowler |
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153 | What Happened To The Tribe Of Dan? | Rev 7:5 | bowler | 206344 | ||
Cody Mac Thank you very much. At some point the tribe of Manasseh and the tribe of Gad were half tribes. I tried to trace the history of Dan while waiting for an answer and found that it simply dissapears out of scripture sometime after the building of the Milo at Jerusalem, scripture has the tribe of Dan going up into the hills and then they are not heard of again. Perhaps your explanation shows best what happened there, they rebelled against God somewhere along the line. What has me pulling my mustache in thought is that in Revelation there are not 12 tribes but 11 mentioned, and that in Numbers there not 12 but 13 mentioned. I try not to enter into speculation though it is far safer to find a definite scriptural answer. blessings abound, bowler |
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154 | What Happened To The Tribe Of Dan? | Rev 7:5 | bowler | 206384 | ||
Immanuelsown I am trying to still learn about and get used to how this site works and I keep stumbling on what people are saying! So thanks for pointing me to a link, or do you call them branches? I do believe Doc was most helpful in this manner as well, I had to get into the right search box first and then everything poped up. Now I must say, that was a most engaging post you gave me there, very thorough, very thorough indeed. I will keep stuyding to find out who subsituted for whom and whom was a half tribe of whom and why Revelation only lists 11 tribes out of a possible 13. blessings abound, bowler |
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155 | Armies of Heaven Fight With Jesus? | Rev 19:14 | bowler | 206745 | ||
Makarios Thank you for your thoughts here. I hope you don't mind, I am going to avail myself of all your links there in your profile. Here is one for you, but you may already have it - http://www.scripture4all.org/download/download down slash ISA20.php blessings abound, bowler |
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