Results 121 - 140 of 168
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Results from: Notes Author: hobbs Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
121 | Paul's evil practices Pre or PostJesus | Rom 7:19 | hobbs | 169422 | ||
Thanks for your insights Jeff. Some times we can't see the forest because the trees are in our way. Chapter 7 of Romans is about the Law and it's defense. That the problem is not the Law. The problem is Paul! So, if Paul had not reached perfection, I have along long way to go!! Good Night Jeff, John |
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122 | Paul's evil practices Pre or PostJesus | Rom 7:19 | hobbs | 169421 | ||
Hi Tim, The following is from a sermon by John Piper. I prefer to post my personal views but Piper has said what I would have said had I his gifts. To answer this question I need to tell you where I stand on who this divided man is. Remember from last week, some say Romans 7:14-25 is Paul's description of his experience before he was a Christian; and some say that it is his description of his experience as a Christian. Well, I think the second position is right. Paul is speaking about himself here as a Christian. Let me say immediately that I do not mean we should settle in and coast with worldly living and a defeatist mentality. We should not make peace with our sin; we should make war on our sin. Defeat is not the only, or the even the main, experience of the Christian life. But it is part of it. I agree with J. I. Packer who wrote an article on this passage two years ago to defend the view that I am taking here. He said Paul is not telling us that the life of the "wretched man" is as bad as it could be, only that it is not as good as it should be, and that because the man delights in the law and longs to keep it perfectly his continued inability to do so troubles him acutely. . . . The "wretched man" is Paul himself, spontaneously voicing his distress at not being a better Christian than he is, and all we know of Paul personally fits in with this supposition. So I think what Paul is saying is not that Christians live in continual defeat, but that no Christian lives in continual victory over sin. And in those moments and times when we fail to triumph over sin, Romans 7:14-25 is the normal way a healthy Christian should respond. He should say, · I love the Law of God. Verse 22: "I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man." · I hate what I just did. Verse 15: "I am doing the very thing I hate." · Oh the wretchedness I feel in these times! I long for deliverance from this body that constantly threatens to kill me, and that I have to mortify day after day. Verse 24: "Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?" (see Romans 6:6; 8:10, 13). Nobody should want to live this way. Or settle to live this way. That's not the point. The point is, when you do live this way, this is the Christian response. No lying. No hypocrisy. No posing. No vaunted perfectionism. Lord, deliver us from a church like that - with its pasted smiles, and chipper superficiality, and blindness to our own failures, and consequent quickness to judge others. God give us the honesty and candor and humility of the apostle Paul. So that is the view I want to defend. Romans 7:14-25 is part of Christian experience - not ideal, but real. You may read His seron in it's entirety at: http://www.desiringgod.org/library/sermons/01/060301.html By the way, Piper does not think that regenerate Paul or unregenerate Paul affects the meessage one way or the other. I'm not as certain as he is and it is something I'll pray about. Thanks Tim, John |
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123 | Paul's evil practices Pre or PostJesus | Rom 7:19 | hobbs | 169418 | ||
Thanks Joe, I have always appreciated your perspective. John |
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124 | Paul's evil practices Pre or PostJesus | Rom 7:19 | hobbs | 169415 | ||
Dear Doc, God bless you for your honesty and humility. I wonder why the translators have not even added a footnote explaing why we should NOT pay any attention to the tense used in 14-25? I have always assumed that their work was aimed at presenting a translation that conveyed the actual intent of the writer(I apologize for the irony).(smile) Brother John |
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125 | Paul's evil practices Pre or PostJesus | Rom 7:19 | hobbs | 169412 | ||
Dear Tim, Please for give me, for I have strong feelings about this subject. Matt 16:6 And Jesus said to them, "Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." John the Baptist called them a brood of vipers; Jesus called them blind guides! And worst of all, son's of their father the devil!!! How can one love the Law when they can't even perceive it's meaning? Their goal was to replace the Law with the traditions of men. The Pharisees were practicing and teaching an apostate religion. They twisted the Law in the same way as cults today twist the Scriptures. John |
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126 | Paul's evil practices Pre or PostJesus | Rom 7:19 | hobbs | 169407 | ||
Hi Tim, the only ans. I can give you at this time is that Paul is saying that we are not slaves because we are to reckon ourselves to be dead to sin's bondage. Therefore, in a spiritual sense the law does not apply to us. This does not mean that we do not sin against our own best intentions. My sin greives me to the point of wretchedness. At times I feel like a slave and I cry out to Lord asking for His forgiveness, and, for the grace I neeed to overcome the power of sin that is in my fleshy nature. Most of the time the answer I recieve is that "My grace is sufficient for you." To pursue lawkeeping as the means to gain favor with God is to make the same mistake that Caine made when he offered up a sacrifce that God had not decreed. The righteous will live by faith. In this way God insures that I never will be in a position of claiming any of the glory that rightfully belongs to Christ Jesus, my Saviour; my Redeemer; my Righteousness. John |
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127 | Paul's evil practices Pre or PostJesus | Rom 7:19 | hobbs | 169402 | ||
Hi Brother Tim, you have listed 4 points in defense of your position. I trust you will not object to my attempt to prove that they are flawed to one extant or another. Your 1st point was: 1) Mind/Flesh distinction: I see Paul describing himself as a son of the Law and as a pharisee. Even though he was unregenerate, he still had a love for and a committment to the Law of God. The problem was that even though his 'mind or will' desired to keep the Law, his sinful nature would not allow him to be obedient. He found himself doing the things he did not want to do, and not doing the things he wanted to do. ---------------------------- The first thing that struck me is "son of the Law". I had not recalled that term ever mentiomed in Scripture. What significanse do you attach to it? We know that David loved the Law, but where do find Paul (or any unregenerate) loving God's Law? Paul himself says that the natural man does nor recieve the things of God for they are foolishness to him...Paul may loved the self -satisfaction he had from keeping 9 of the commandments (at least thought he was keeping them at the time) but the sermon on the mount blew all the pharisees pretentions to bits....None of fallen man's attempts to please God bear fruit, for without faith it is impossible to please Him. The best thing you can say of Paul the Pharisee was that he had great self-esteem! God willing, I will address your 2nd point after work. John |
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128 | Paul's evil practices Pre or PostJesus | Rom 7:19 | hobbs | 169400 | ||
Their not my words Tim, but Paul's. What do you make of them? John |
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129 | Paul's evil practices Pre or PostJesus | Rom 7:19 | hobbs | 169398 | ||
Hi Jeff, What do you think Paul means when he says in Rom 7:17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. In so many places he refers to himself as dead. For instance: He states that it is longer "I" that live, but it Christ dwelling in me. It is also clear that the key to understanding Romans is grace. Just a few thoughts before I return to work. John |
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130 | Paul's evil practices Pre or PostJesus | Rom 7:19 | hobbs | 169397 | ||
Hi Jeff, What do you think Paul means when he says in Rom 7:17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. In so many places he refers to himself as dead. For instance: He states that it is longer "I" that live, but it Christ dwelling in me. It is also clear that the key to understanding Romans is grace. Just a few thoughts before I return to work. John |
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131 | Paul's evil practices Pre or PostJesus | Rom 7:19 | hobbs | 169393 | ||
Dear Tim, In answer to your Q:How can one be a 'slave to sin' and 'no longer a slave to sin' at the same time?...my reply is that it is not possible be a slave and not a slave at the same time. Paul answers this dilemna saying that " So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me (Rom 7:17). Frankly Tim, your arguement rests not on the text itself, but on your contention that we read it in the light of the "Historic Present". If one reads the text based upon the rules governing the use of tenses in the englsh language, one cannot do other than conclude that Paul in 13-25 is writing of present Paul. God bless, John |
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132 | Paul's evil practices Pre or PostJesus | Rom 7:19 | hobbs | 169361 | ||
To clarify the relationship between the law and sin, Paul analyzes in a personal and dramatic way the sense of impotence for complete law-keeping, and the enslavement to behavior one dislikes, that the Spirit-flesh tension produces (Rom. 7:14-2 5). (J.I. Packer) Hi Doc, What am I missinghere? Packer supports the traditonal reformed position. Paul is decribing his weakness as a born again child of God. As does Piper, Gill, Henry, etc., etc. These men are probably as learned in Greek as anyone on the forum is likely to be. It is also true that I have a personal stake in this. If Paul is describing himself as he had been, and not as he is at the time of his writing...I have just lost an important part of the foundation upon which my regeneration and sanctification are laid. God Bless Doc, John |
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133 | Every NATION or every PERSON? | Matt 24:14 | hobbs | 169319 | ||
Thanks for your encourgement Mark. We all need a lift from time to time. God Bless, John |
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134 | Church membership scriptural? | Heb 10:25 | hobbs | 169318 | ||
In a perfect world, with perfect people who have perfect wisdom...But when real people offer thier opinions (especially on who should be our new Pastor) the discussions on who to choose can generate quite a bit of disageeement. John |
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135 | Is church membership biblical? | Heb 10:25 | hobbs | 169310 | ||
Dear Brad, In Matthew 18:15ff., Jesus teaches us the order to follow in calling an erring brother or sister to repentance and restoring fellowship when a breach has developed between individual members of the church. If the guilty person refuses to listen, Jesus instructs us to bring the matter to the church. That clearly points to believers being recognized as members of a local congregation. In Acts, chapters 2-5, for example, many were brought to faith through the preaching of the apostles. However, they were not left hanging on their own. Instead, they are spoken of as being added to that number who were already a part of the church at Jerusalem. In Acts 20:28, Paul instructs the elders in the church at Ephesus to take heed to themselves and to all the flock over which God has made them overseers. Those elders were not in doubt as to who were members in their congregation. Taking heed to the flock would be impossible, if there were no recognizable membership. To that same church at Ephesus Paul wrote a letter in which he gave instruction as to the importance of congregational life. Christ blesses His elect through the congregation, to which He gives His Word and Spirit. Out of Christ, that whole body, having been fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth--see how intimate is that fellowship--according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love (Ephesians 4:16). http://www.prca.org/pamphlets/pamphlet_67.html |
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136 | Is church membership biblical? | Heb 10:25 | hobbs | 169311 | ||
Dear Brad, In Matthew 18:15ff., Jesus teaches us the order to follow in calling an erring brother or sister to repentance and restoring fellowship when a breach has developed between individual members of the church. If the guilty person refuses to listen, Jesus instructs us to bring the matter to the church. That clearly points to believers being recognized as members of a local congregation. In Acts, chapters 2-5, for example, many were brought to faith through the preaching of the apostles. However, they were not left hanging on their own. Instead, they are spoken of as being added to that number who were already a part of the church at Jerusalem. In Acts 20:28, Paul instructs the elders in the church at Ephesus to take heed to themselves and to all the flock over which God has made them overseers. Those elders were not in doubt as to who were members in their congregation. Taking heed to the flock would be impossible, if there were no recognizable membership. To that same church at Ephesus Paul wrote a letter in which he gave instruction as to the importance of congregational life. Christ blesses His elect through the congregation, to which He gives His Word and Spirit. Out of Christ, that whole body, having been fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth--see how intimate is that fellowship--according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love (Ephesians 4:16). http://www.prca.org/pamphlets/pamphlet_67.html |
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137 | Church membership scriptural? | Heb 10:25 | hobbs | 169308 | ||
“Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves” (Hebrews 13:17) Apart from membership in a local body, whose to say who these "rulers" are to be? Who (on earth) are we submit to? John |
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138 | Every NATION or every PERSON? | Matt 24:14 | hobbs | 169303 | ||
Hi Mark, You asked "Do you intend to imply that if someone has reached a different conclusion from this Scripture, that it is a "less than careful" reading? Yes, I did, and I apologize for thinking that way. Herod's contempt for Jesus (Luke 23:11) and Pilate's spineless expediency (Luke 23:24) and the Jews' "Crucify! Crucify him!" (Luke 23:21) and the Gentile soldiers' mockery (Luke 23:36) were also sinful attitudes and deeds. Yet in Acts 4:27-28 Luke expresses his understanding of the sovereignty of God in these acts by recording the prayer of the Jerusalem saints: Truly in this city there were gathered together against thy holy servant Jesus, whom thou didst anoint both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel to do whatever thy hand and thy plan (boule) had predestined to take place. The above is an example from Piper's article. It clearly shows that God does accompish His perfect will. He never is frustrated or defeated by the choices of the wicked! Take Joseph's brothers for example. When they sold Joseph into slavery, onthe one hand it was becasue they chose to sell him. On the other hand, it was part of God's plan for saving many people. His ways are NOT our ways! We won't ever understand Him better if we continue to interpret Him from our human perspective. "Herod, Pilate, the soldiers and Jewish crowds lifted their hand to rebel against the Most High only to find that their rebellion was unwitting (sinful) service in the inscrutable designs of God."-Piper Job 8:9 "For we are only of yesterday and know nothing, Because our days on earth are as a shadow. John |
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139 | Every NATION or every PERSON? | Matt 24:14 | hobbs | 169299 | ||
Thanks Mark, I have been down this road before. Not being a Greek scholar myself, I rely on respected people in the field for guidance. In this case it is James White. His website is aomin.org. I have to pick up my wife from work, but will post you later. John |
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140 | Every NATION or every PERSON? | Matt 24:14 | hobbs | 169295 | ||
Dear Mark, Thank you for your reply. The fact that you took the time and effort to read the article shows me that you are a serious student of Scripture. I have a diffent interpretation. Luke 13:31 Just at that time some Pharisees approached, saying to Him, "Go away, leave here, for Herod wants to kill You." Luke 13:32 And He said to them, "Go and tell that fox, 'Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I reach My goal.' Luke 13:33 "Nevertheless I must journey on today and tomorrow and the next day; for it cannot be that a prophet would perish outside of Jerusalem. Luke 13:34 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, just as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not have it! than yours. A careful reading of vv 31-34 identifies the Pharisses as those who "would not have it" (NASB). |
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