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Results from: Notes Author: jlhetrick Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
101 | dispensaionalism bad doctrine | Bible general Archive 4 | jlhetrick | 209543 | ||
Thanks for the response... sorry for the delay in responding. I'm really busy with work and family this week (like most weeks actually). Please note that in my response I did make sure to point out that I was not accusing you of anyting but wanted to "nip it in the bud" if it had been the case. I would also add that we should always be on guard against false doctrines and teachings while at the same time recognizing that we have to be careful when we call doctrines false, especially when they are held as legitimate doctrine by so many accomplished Christians and scholars. What I mean here is that you have some of it right, I have some things right, the guy down the street has some things right, but neither of us has it all right. That is why we continue in our effort to study and know God daily. When we set off on a "mission" that often means we have our minds made up and then we might become unteachable even to the point of refusing to allow God himself to redirect and correct our doctrine through His word. In other words, our campaign might be one of searching out bits and pieces of Scripture in order to make our case while we ignore things that do not support our position. We see that on this forum daily. Greater men than you and me (and by that I mean men who have commited more time and effort in searching the Scriptures) have studied long and with great sincerity in order to arrive at their dispensational position. If we, in our early, brief time in the word set out to destroy their doctrine we will, almost definately, be made the fool. The rule: Never set out to prove your doctrine by the Word of God. Start with the Word of God to establish your doctrine. Hope this is helpful, Jeff |
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102 | how can we minister to homosexuals | Bible general Archive 4 | jlhetrick | 209532 | ||
Sister- you understand me exactly. Thank you for your fresh input and keen ability to word things appropriately so their understandable. I wish I had that but understand that I do not so it's a struggle. Since you communicate so well in English, sister, I can only imagine how skilled a communicator you are in your original language. Thanks, Jeff |
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103 | how can we minister to homosexuals | Bible general Archive 4 | jlhetrick | 209514 | ||
Doc- at this point I am hopelessy at a loss in even comprehending where we are missing each other here, seriously. I mean no insult and I mean no disrespect. It is difficult, if not impossible, for me to understand how it is that you are either so incapable of understanding me or I am so incapable of making myself understood. You keep giving responses that insinuate I have taken positions that I haven't even hinted at. After multiple rereads of my own posts, I can't even imagine where I might have suggested that a man can serve two masters, for example. "Stealth Christians"? Never heard of such a critter so we're in agreement for sure on that one brother. You yourself "note the past tense" of "and such were some of you" which is what I pointed out to you so I'm not following. The past tense vs the future is exactly what I have been arguing all along. A homosexual today.... may.... be.... the saved man of tomorrow. So,... judging him... eternally lost....can not be supported by Scripture. Scripture says that "inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment," Hebrews 9:27 (NASB) If we declare they are eternally lost then we are rewriting Scripture. Judgment comes after death. 1 Corinthians 4:1-5 (NASB) 1 Let a man regard us in this manner, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. 2 In this case, moreover, it is required of stewards that one be found trustworthy. 3 But to me it is a very small thing that I may be examined by you, or by any human court; in fact, I do not even examine myself. 4 For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord. 5 THEREFORE DO NOT GO ON PASSING JUDGMENT BEFORE THE TIME, BUT WAIT UNTIL THE LORD COMES who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God. (emphasis added) I've asked you if your believing I am saying that a person immersed and willfully living in sin is A SAVED PERSON (emphasis not intended as yelling). You didn't address that so I'm not sure if your reading my entire posts. You asked me: "How do you think those folks who ONCE WERE practicing drunkenness, adultery, deception, thievery, sorcery, and idolatry differed in behavior from the lost guys that ARE NOW practicing drunkenness, adultery, deception, thievery, sorcery, and idolatry? :-)" I don't think they were different; do you think they were different? My point, from the very beginning, was that just as "those folks" ONCE WERE; the homosexual or murderer, or theif, or drunkered you meet today may be changed so that it could be said of him (after being called out of his sin by God) that he ONCE WAS, but no longer is. Doc, as long as I've been engaging in bible study, to include my time here on the forum, I can't remember a time where I was so incapable of getting my point across. I do not doubt that this is the case here as evidenced by your apparent belief that I am saying things that I am not saying. For that I offer a sincere apology and beg your patience in spite of my obvious frustration at times. God bless, Jeff |
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104 | how can we minister to homosexuals | Bible general Archive 4 | jlhetrick | 209476 | ||
Doc- you wrote: "To suggest to someone who is willfully practicing drunkenness, deceit, adultery, thievery, etc. that they MIGHT be saved, is giving false assurance and doing it in complete repudiation of Scripture." I sincerely disagree with you brother. I'm having a most difficult time believing that you are taking this position. It’s easier to believe though (and might be the case) that we are continuing to misunderstand each other. If that be the case, let me point to what I see (assuming I’m reading you right) as a misrepresentation of what I have said. Are you saying here that I have suggested or stated that I believe that a person who is “willfully practicing”, living in a continuous and willful lifestyle of sin, IS saved, or MIGHT be saved in the present. If I am reading you wrong please redirect me. If I have you right then I’m convinced at that point that you have misunderstood me. It is why I wrote to another poster to reread my post(S). I am confident that my posts clearly represent that I have continually referred to a person’s eternal condition (the final state – and not the current state)…. the end result, never ever was the current state ever my argument. Doc, thanks for pointing to 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. I rest my case in verse 11. “AND SUCH WERE SOME OF YOU. BUT you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God” (ESV, emphasis added). When believers go into the world and witness to the lost why do we do that? Because our Lord commanded it (Mark 16:15)... and He assured that there would be a direct result in that some will believe and will be saved (Mark 16:17). When we, in sin, judge that an individual or certain demographic is beyond hope we have certainly lost our ability to witness to them. Tragic! So teaching that someone who willfully practices these (or any) sin is beyond salvation is really the falsehood here. Never believe for a minute my friend that offering the hope of a willing and able Savior is “giving false assurance” and it is never “in complete repudiation of Scripture” but rather, is our obedience to our Lord’s command and in hope of His promise. We were all willfully in our sin before the Lord called us. (Romans 5:8). You wrote: “If Scripture doesn't give them assurance, all the while we tell them there is hope for those who cling to their sin, then we do sin grievously (Ezekiel 13:16; Jeremiah 28:9-17).” You surprise me Doc… that you would even insinuate that I’m advocating that. “Clinging to sin” is your input… I never even suggested it. But to address that I’ll only say that Paul surely was clinging very tightly to his up to the time he met the Lord face to face…. was he not? Jeff |
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105 | how can we minister to homosexuals | Bible general Archive 4 | jlhetrick | 209441 | ||
Well I believe you need to reread the thread, my posts included, and keep it all in context. You may "think it is within our ability to judge someones eternal state" but thinking is of little value when it is in conflict with Scripture... so please consider that. You wrote: "If you see someone living a Homosexual life style, they ARE NOT SAVED" Clearly you have missed the point. In no place have I argued that this person is saved or not saved. My point, consistently, is in addressing the ETERNAL condition. Can you see someone commiting murder and judge their eternal state as lost? King David and Paul are both in that category (murderers). Both guilty of murderer, but not lost... saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. How about thieves and drunkards, liars, adulterers, etc. Do those send you to hell? Have you ever committed one of these. Do you get the point now? Scripture tells us that if we're guilty of one we're guilty of all. You would do well in this case to read (and consider) James 2:1-13 paying particular attention to verse 10 in the process. There was once a wise man (I think it was my grandfather) who said, "you do well to at least strap on a good pair of waders before jumping in with both feet". Hope this helps, Jeff |
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106 | God Punished New Orleans with Katrina | Bible general Archive 4 | jlhetrick | 209386 | ||
Absolutely Brad. Not to rehash it but I agree that the attributing things like Katrina to God's judgment is all wrong for all the reasons stated so far. Thanks for responding, I understand now. Jeff |
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107 | Church membership...a requirement? | Bible general Archive 4 | jlhetrick | 209361 | ||
"Does anyone know where he is getting that from?" Not Scripture! I would follow Brother Tim's direction here. If your pastor stands on the previous statement and your husband understood correctly maybe you can ask for scripture to support his statement. Welcome! Jeff |
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108 | God Punished New Orleans with Katrina | Bible general Archive 4 | jlhetrick | 209359 | ||
Brother Brad- You wrote: "God is dealing with individuals now, not nations!" Will you elaborate please? Thanks and God bless, Jeff |
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109 | Can we live life without sinning? | Rom 6:12 | jlhetrick | 209324 | ||
stjohn- as you are in apparent agreement with the statements of HH2, and he has not as yet responded (though it's still early) would you help me understand what he/she is saying and the Scriptural support? Thanks, Jeff |
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110 | Can we live life without sinning? | Rom 6:12 | jlhetrick | 209323 | ||
HH2- in me previous post I referenced Romans 15:31 as possibly being the text you might be referring to regardin "killing the flesh daily". stjohn called it to my attention for obvious reasons. Sorry, I ment to give 1Cor. 15:31 as the reference, not Romans. sorry, Jeff |
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111 | Can we live life without sinning? | Rom 6:12 | jlhetrick | 209321 | ||
uuh! No! I meant 1Cor. 15:31. Thanks for pointing that out. Jeff |
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112 | Can we live life without sinning? | Rom 6:12 | jlhetrick | 209315 | ||
HH2- do you have an understanding of what Paul meant by "die daily"? Will you offer Scripture to support your statement? It's not that I'm disagreeing with your premise; I'm just not sure I agree with how your attempting to support it (but I may be misunderstanding you). I believe your referencing Romans 15:31. If so, I'm not finding that Scripture speaking to your point. As for "killing this flesh daily through repentence" I'm not following, sorry. If I'm sinning, am I killing the flesh? Or would I be failing to "kill the flesh"? On the other hand, If I, by God's grace and provision live this single day without having sinned, would it then be accurate to say that the flesh has been put to death today? I'm not following you when you say we "kill the flesh daily through repentence". If we are repenting what are we repenting of if not sin. If we are sinning, and therefore in need of repentence, are we "killing the flesh"? My first instinct here is that we probably agree more than disagree, but if you could clarify I would appreciate it. God bless, Jeff |
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113 | Can we live life without sinning? | Rom 6:12 | jlhetrick | 209313 | ||
Very well articulated brother, thanks for the Scripturally sound teaching, as always. Jeff |
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114 | how can we minister to homosexuals | Bible general Archive 4 | jlhetrick | 209296 | ||
Amen! | ||||||
115 | how can we minister to homosexuals | Bible general Archive 4 | jlhetrick | 209295 | ||
Blessed day to you also! | ||||||
116 | how can we minister to homosexuals | Bible general Archive 4 | jlhetrick | 209248 | ||
You wrote: "BECAUSE SINNERS WHO DO NOT REPENT ARE GOING TO HELL" I'll point to "WHO DO NOT REPENT" and ask you to couple that with the rest of what I have written in the thread. If your not able to get it from that then I'm afraid I don't have anything more to offer. Good luck with this, Jeff |
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117 | how can we minister to homosexuals | Bible general Archive 4 | jlhetrick | 209247 | ||
Dear Doc- Here is how you put it: "Scripture is quite clear about a number of specific behaviors and how they relate to how a person stands before our Holy God" I believe Bishop Ryle is talking about something different, but I agree with you... he makes plain sense. Justification is not an ongoing process. When we are justified, it is a final act of saving grace. However, how we might "stand before God" after that (being justified) would be, as I understand it, a matter of our being sanctified (Hebrews 10:14). The new creation continues in a process of being made holy. Even as new creations we are not perfect in our obedience and submission to God. Perfectly justified and saved, but not perfectly holy. This is what I assumed you were infering when you wrote "Scripture is quite clear about a number of specific behaviors and how they relate to how a person stands before our Holy God". If I took your words out of context and/or my paraphrase seemed to imply a different meaning than your intended one, then please accept my sincere apology. God bless, Jeff |
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118 | how can we minister to homosexuals | Bible general Archive 4 | jlhetrick | 209193 | ||
Doc- sorry for the delay... BBQ night with the family...thanks for the response brother. Thanks for having patients with me also. For easier following I’ll include your quote of me. “"It's not our place to ever tell someone their going to Hell..." (sic)” Now I’ll quote the original question from Tyboswell: “how can we minister to homosexuals rather than tellin them they are going to hell or avoidin the issue i hop im clear” I was responding directly to Tyboswell’s “rather than telling them they are going to hell.” My point (and I’m sorry I’m having such a hard time articulating it) was/is that it is not our place as fallen creatures to judge another person’s eternal state. We couldn’t if we wanted to and we’re never taught in Scripture to do so. With that said, God’s grace to transform the unbeliever is not only in the question, it is the essential point, both in regard to his question and my response to him. We might look at it this way. If we know a person is already going to Hell, why would we witness to him/her in the first place? It’s possibly a reason why God does not give you and me the ability to know if another will be lost to eternal damnation or saved by God’s grace. As long as there is still breath and a conscious thought, there is the possibility of responding to the Savior; even if one’s sin has him nailed to a cross. The thief on the cross next to our Savior certainly fell into 1Corinthians 6:9-11. Of course... so did the Apostle Paul, so did I, so did you and the list goes on. As I have represented in this thread (at least I believed so) my response had nothing to do with not calling sin for what it is. It was specifically to say that we are not in a position to judge the eternal condition of another. I am quite in agreement with you that Scripture clearly teaches how a person’s behavior effects how he/she stands before God; Just as Scripture teaches that none of those behaviors are beyond the redemptive love and grace of our Holy God. As you pointed out from Matthew 7: "...the Scripture is unequivocal that we are to be careful observers, not only of our own lives (2 Corinthians 13:5), but also the lives of others (Hebrews 12:15-16)” Keep in mind that Hebrews 12:15-16 is talking to believers about believers. The context of the passage is that of describing, in part,the process of sanctification to include that part in which believers participate one to another. It has nothing whatever to do with witnessing to the unsaved nor does it speak to judging the final state of another’s sole. Doc, thanks for, as always, working patiently through the topic. Not that I’m calling it done, just don’t know that I can add more than I already have offered. God bless, Jeff |
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119 | how can we minister to homosexuals | Bible general Archive 4 | jlhetrick | 209163 | ||
Peacebestill- Sorry for the delay... at work and just getting to my lunch break. Sorry for your concern. The problem may be in your reading into the posts, not reading all of the post(s), not keeping context in mind or any combination of these. A reread of my posts should, hopefully, relieve your concern. You wrote: “When one presents the gospel there are certain vital elements that cannot really be left out if we are to give the message straight.” In my response to Tyboswell I wrote: “If you have the opportunity to talk to any person regarding his/her particular lifestyle, the best way to do that is with the Word of God. Straight and to the point should be the rule. Otherwise we might end up thinking we can somehow present it in a way (our own way) that is somehow "more effective" So I clearly took the position that NO elements should be left out; rather than “certain” elements should be included. I went on to point out that: “Contrary to a lot of approaches out there today, there is simply no better counsel than the Word of God. No method of presentation is going to improve on it. Pertaining to me you wrote: “it seems as if you would prefer not to tell a sinner that they are on their way to hell...” This seems to be the first time in the thread this has come up. Not quite sure what you mean by “on their way to hell” but my response was that it is not our place to say they are GOING to Hell. Please consider my response to Doc again. 1 Thessalonians 5:9 says: For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, (ESV) Romans 5:8 says: But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Who does the “us” in Romans 5:8 refer too? Is there a particular sin that is beyond Christ’s redemption? Is homosexual behavior? You wrote: “God plans to punish all sinners with a terrible judgment and wrath.” Well… no… God has and is saving some. By His grace he calls some out of sin saving us through faith in Jesus Christ. (Eph 2:5, 8). We don’t “get saved” but rather, God saves us but I'm assuming here that you meant that those that He does not save will die eternally separated from God. I’m afraid that we too often pick and choose sins (homosexuality, murder, etc.) and judge the involved person as lost. Thankfully, and as I’m trying to point out in this thread, the call is not ours. There will be homosexuals who spend eternity separated from God. There will homosexuals who are called out of their sin, touched by the mercy and grace of God as they receive the faith to believe and receive that most miraculous gift in Christ. As for your reference to 1Corinthians 9-10 I’m afraid therein may be the problem. As you so rightly argue, the WHOLE message is what’s important. Please refer to verse 11. Stopping short at verse 10 neglects the gospel message. Hope this is helpful and God bless, Jeff |
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120 | how can we minister to homosexuals | Bible general Archive 4 | jlhetrick | 209132 | ||
Doc- thanks for the response brother. Not sure though, what you meant by never rendering assurance as it applies to my post; if you would clarify please. Thank you for offering further context to my reference. Let's back the context up in the other direction so that we gain even further understanding. Matthew 7:1-2 (ESV) 1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Is Christ contradicting Himself when shortly after he offers the warning of false profits? The question is rhetorical of course. We know He was not. Recognizing false teaching (and that by the fruit) and judging the eternal state of another is two very different things. The immediate context seems to make that clear. So that we don't miss the essence of the question (and of my response to tyboswell) the focus here was/is on how to witness to someone in sin (in this case, homosexuality). To jump to equating the homosexual sinner with a false prophet (the context of your bible passage refernce) doesn't appear an accurate position to take. Let us never forget that the grace of God is capable of delivering every person from a lifestyle of sin, even the homosexual. I was no better in mine than the homosexual is in his or hers. Lord forgive me if I ever think it’s mine to look upon another and judge his eternity. I liken that to David's own concern in Psalm 19:13. Tyboswell, if your reading along…. Sorry for straying from the focus of your question. We tend to do that when parts of posts seem to require attention or clarification. It’s part of the process. God bless, Jeff |
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