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Results from: Notes Author: seeking4truth Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Insufficient grace? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101710 | ||
Oops, we must be discussing something that is a no-no here at SBF. I've noticed that this thread has been turned off for viewing. Well, thanks again to everyone who has responded to my controverial posts and wild ideas. I appreciate all of you who had something truthful and encouraging to say, even if I disagreed or if it stung a little bit. Grace and peace to you all. seeking4truth |
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2 | What is "born again?" | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101699 | ||
Ken, as far as I know. I'd like to hear your take on being "born again." seeking4truth |
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3 | Did Jesus teach hate? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101655 | ||
I appreciate your post. It does help to put some things into perspective. It is just a struggle to understand why Jesus said and did some of the things that He said and did giving the general consensus of Him and His ministry. For instance, though He is the Prince of Peace, He claimed to bring a sword and to divide. It takes much time, patience, and humbleness to truly understand this God-man. seeking4truth |
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4 | Insufficient grace? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101632 | ||
Justme, ***"I have wondered if we said don't introduce anyone to Christ unless you are willing to either disciple or get someone else to keep this "new creation in Christ" growing. Any thoughts?" Yessir, I have a thought (I'm alotted one per week): You are dangerously close to agreeing with me. Beware! :) I didn't go into it in my last tirade, but a Bible was slapped into my hands without: 1. Anyone offering me a place to start. 2. Anyone showing me a few good principles of Bible study. 3. Anyone giving me any sort of history as to how we got the Bible. 4. Anyone helping me to understand the differences between the Old Testament (Covenant) and the New. 5. Anyone helping me to learn to compare scripture with scripture. 6. Anyone helping me to understand HOW the Holy Spirit teaches us from God's Word. 7. Anyone showing me what the proper role is concerning God's written Word in my life. I was simply a number by which to judge the effectiveness of a church's VBS program. That's enough for now. I don't want to lay too much blame at "Anyone's" feet. I was simply told to read the Bible. To me at that age, it was analogous to handy me a Chilton's Repair Manual and telling me to read it in order to repair a car. I had no context of where to begin and where to go. And the Elizabethian English made it that much harder. So your post is most welcome to me, justme. We have a similar heartbeat. "People want to know that you care before they will care what you know." seeking4truth |
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5 | Christ and Christians? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101582 | ||
Ken, ***Did you follow this one: John 3:7 (NASB) "...... 'You must be born again.' Yes, I thought I did. But I also found this one: Matthew 5:48 - "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Think being born again is hard, try this one. Ouch. Sorry, no can do. Yet it is Jesus' imperative command, isn't it? seeking4truth |
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6 | I'm skeptical | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101574 | ||
Hi BradK, I do appreciate your concern and thanks for caring. But I am in a place right now where (I know this is going to sound sacriligeous) quoting key scriptures just doesn't help me very much. Why? Isn't it because I don't believe the scriptures? Well, yes and no. I believe the scriptures are from God and are therefore infallible. But I don't believe that we interpret them infallibly. I know that I don't. I've been wrong so many times (while claiming to know for absolute certainty) that I no longer trust myself. And everytime I would have sworn that it was the Holy Spirit revealing truth to me. For example, I could list about 8 verses that seem to say that a person can lose their salvation. I could list about 8 that seem to say that salvation is eternal. I could list about 6 that seem to say that salvation is a progressive process. And I could list about 6 that seem to say that it is an event. So it is difficult for me to know what truth is anymore. That is why I am seeking it and what others may say about it. The beauty of a forum like this is it encourages us to look at more than one passage of scripture and to consider more than one viewpoint. I have a philosophy (and I admit that this may be wrong) that truth cannot be known UNTIL all the passages of scripture concerning a certain topic have been considered and there is no contradiction between them. Unfortunately, I find that Christians can (and do) argue about almost every doctrine and each one has their "pet" verses they use to substantiate their view. If you will find my post about Jesus' criteria for being a believer, you will see what I mean. (Sorry I don't have the link) But Jesus listed criteria for believers in Mark 16 that I just don't meet. So by His own words, I am not a believer (at least, not in the sense that He requires). I tend to think that I believe in Jesus like I believe in Abraham Lincoln. He lived, He died, He ascended, He will return. But I do not speak in tongues, pick up serpents, drink poison, heal the sick, thread on scorpions nor can my faith move an anthill, let alone a mountain. So by Jesus' own estimation and definition, I am not a believer. And I don't know if I ever will have that kind of faith in Him to do those things. I know, that makes me not worthy of the kingdom. What can I do? I guess all I can do is to trust that He sees my heart and that somehow His grace will be sufficient for me when it is all said and done. Thanks again for caring, BradK. If I relied on ONLY John 17:3 and 1 John 5:11-13, I might have some hope. But I know way too many other passages that say that I must endure to the end to be saved, or that I must be baptized to be saved, or that even acknowledging that He is Lord AND doing some of the miracles that He listed as signs of true believers is not enough. He still says to depart from Him. All I can do is to be like Job and say that though He slay me, yet I'll have to trust that His judgement is right. seeking4truth |
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7 | Ken, are you sure? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101561 | ||
No, I'm still seeking. And I always will be. But *I* determine what I'm seeking, you don't. I simply don't wish to argue with you. That's all. seeking4truth |
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8 | Ken, are you sure? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101553 | ||
Ken, okay, Jesus was innocent. I agree. That was a good, solid argument. I couldn't argue with that. Nor will I. You win. :) Have fun. seeking4truth |
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9 | Ken, are you sure? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101552 | ||
No thanks. I'll let someone else begin. seeking4truth |
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10 | Ken, are you sure? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101545 | ||
Well, I'm not so sure, Ken. You wrote: "It's always been a "blood" demand with God." I've posted verses that seem to speak to the contrary. But we all tend to believe what we want to believe. Again, that is what much of these threads are about in this topic - that WE pick and choose which verses we want to hold to and which ones we want to reason away or ignor. To me, this smacks of the same sin that brought humanity's downfall in the first place - "Did God REALLY say...?" And I am not so sure about the statement of only innocent blood standing in the presence of God either. Jesus was, as I understand it, righteous, not innocent. Innocent denotes not knowing right or wrong (as Adam and Eve were before the fall). Righteous denotes a positive component of moral perfection, not innocence. But these are the fallible thoughts of a fallen creature (myself). seeking4truth |
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11 | I'm skeptical | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101502 | ||
Emmaus, yes, I know the post was yours, my friend. I was just referring to some reference book that someone else mentioned that, from what I understand, goes indepth into the meaning of the Bible words. It could be helpful. As to your being a Catholic Christian, that is between you and God as far as I'm concerned. I'm not even sure that I am a Christian so I'm certainly not in any position to judge anyone else. But I do understand what you are saying in reference to "father", though. In my particular translation, the next verse says not to call anyone "instructor" because Christ is the instructor. I am not sure why this particular label is not called into question. Maybe (only a guess) because in Western culture, we don't often address each other as "teacher" or "instructor." As I understand it, the Jewish word "rabbi" was frequently used to show deference and to acknowledge authority. But my culture doesn't often use such a designation. In grade school, my teachers told me to call them "Miss...(this or that" or "Mrs...(this or that)". "Teacher" or "instructor" was not often used. In college, things changed a little with "professor" but even that title only signifies one who professes something. Another reason that "instructor" may not receive as much attention is that Jesus never seemed to call God "Our Instructor Who art in heaven." He often referred to God as Father but I don't recall Him ever referring to God as "instructor" or "teacher." Nevertheless, the role was certainly there, wasn't it? Jesus said that He didn't say anything unless the Father told Him to say it and that He didn't do anything unless the Father told Him to do it. It is possible that the roles may have been interchangeable, don't you think? After all, fathers should be instructors. And somewhere the Bible says that Jesus Himself LEARNED OBEDIENCE. Now, there is one to make you scratch your head. That's my 2 cents. I certainly won't claim that it is the word of the Lord, just my opinion. But I admit that I am probably the world's worst Pharisee in that I often get caught up in the letter of the law and ignor the Spirit behind it. So keep that in mind. seeking4truth |
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12 | I'm skeptical | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101494 | ||
Thanks, Emmaus. Found the article and read it. It is always interesting on how many different meanings and connotations that words can have. While a literal translation (like the NASB) can render the appropriate non-English word into English, it would seem that we need some type of extra-biblical references to help us delve into the many nuances and facets of the original languages. I am going to try to find the Word Study reference (was it Zhodiates?) that someone here mentioned. Maybe that will help me to better understand some of the words and phrases that often challenge my own limited knowledge. seeking4truth |
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13 | Hebrew idioms? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101492 | ||
Thank you, Emmaus | ||||||
14 | Hebrew idioms? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101469 | ||
George, thanks for your note of encouragement. I will endeavor to take to heart what you say. You may be right about God alone being able to provide what I seek. Isn't that one of the axioms of the Christian faith - that God has created us for Himself and we are restless until we find Him? At the same time, I believe that no man is an island and that while God is perfectly capable of revealing His truth to me without any other human interaction, I find that He frequently does use fallen vessels to contain and convey divine truth. And, to the best of my knowledge and conscience, I DO have some faith. To think that my 3 pounds of brain could completely understand the infinite mind of God would be extremely presumptous. But I am not so sure that it is the amount of my faith that is important as it is the object of my faith that is key. Some things may be meant to be known. Other things may be the secret things that belong to God. Either way, I do acknowledge that we must come to Him and then walk by faith. But again, it is not a blind faith, it is faith in seeing that (the inverse of what you stated) God is not a man that He should lie. If that is true, then we should find something of that assertion put forth in the Bible. If God is God, then His truth does not depend on me. Nor is there one thing that I can say or do to change it. I only seek to understand it better. Grace and peace to you, George. seeking4truth |
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15 | Christ and Christians? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101452 | ||
Aixen, Yes, I am with you. While I would agree that all scripture is breath-out by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness, I would not use every verse the same way in the same manner. For example, the teaching in the OT which says that animal sacrifices should be done, while being a true teaching in and of itself, actually pointed to the "truer" truth that Jesus Christ is the once-for-all-sacrifice. If I was to use passages in Leviticus (as a "Bible-believing Christian") to prove to others that animal sacrifice is commanded by God and by the Bible, I would not be accurately handling the word of truth, would I? The truth of animal sacrifices in the OT is made plain in the sacrifice of the Lamb of God in the NT. I think that the writer of Hebrews calls the OT a "shadow" of the reality in Christ. Perhaps we should start a new thread to continue this conversation? I don't know all the "netiquette" rules here on the forum. But, yes, I think I am following you. seeking4truth |
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16 | Hebrew idioms? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101449 | ||
Yes, George, do pray for my poor soul. "Blessed are the poor in spirit" as Jesus once said. But you misunderstood my post. I was NOT saying that I would interpret all scripture as idiomatic. I am asking by what guidelines do we decide when/what scriptures should be taken at face-value and when they should be interpreted as idiomatic. I am sorry that you feel that I am here to fool anybody. That is not my intent. And if we have the Spirit of God, I would think that we could rest assured that He would lead us into all truth. I have posted my questions and sought help. I have not threatened anyone with fire and brimstone if they don't agree with me. Not everyone is going to be comfortable with my questions. That is fine. If not, then there are quite a number of threads on this forum that may be more according to the gifts that we each posess. I admit that I have doubt. But, George, is it possible that God could use my doubts (and others' help to me) as a stepping-stone to greater faith and trust? If I thought that the answer to this was "no", I never would have considered posting here. I have some dealings with ex-Christians, my friend. It is not pretty scenario. Some sincere folks are leaving Christianity because of all the infighting and judgementalism that exists under the umbrella of Christianity. Instead of pointing out sin and error for the purpose of restoring such a soul, Christians are pointing out sin and error in order to judge a soul. And these people who have doubts are leaving because Christianity is often seen as a blind faith whose followers can quote plenty of scripture but cannot offer any solid reasoning. This despite the fact that, I believe, God created the reasoning process to begin with. It is easy, George, to categorize and label many of these folks who desire a sincere, reasoned faith as "reprobate" and to shake the dust from your feet. But Jesus seemed to have a penchant for going after even one lost sheep. Is this only the unsaved? It is much more difficult and time-consuming to try to understand WHY we believe what we believe. C.S. Lewis is one of my favorite Christian authors. His book, "Mere Christianity", more than any other (except the Bible) has influenced me to give serious consideration to the concept of one God who has chosen to reveal Himself to humanity. I wish to God that He would raise up another C.S. Lewis in THIS generation who could help people to understand that God and His ways could be known experientially, not just recited. seeking4truth |
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17 | True Disciples - eternal importance | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101433 | ||
Aixen, You wrote: "Seeker seems to have one overarching question and several underlying questions." So true. My main struggle is believing the teachings of Jesus. I admit that. Yes, I want to put whole-hearted faith and trust in Him. And He taught so that others would place their faith and trust in Him as Messiah. But I desire a reasoned faith. The "blind" faith of my childhood has brought me no peace and joy. I feel like Thomas, "Lord, I believe, help Thou my unbelief." seeking4truth |
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18 | Any literature? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101432 | ||
Thanks to ALL who have sent me internet resources for Bible apologetics and seemingly contradictions in God's Word. I appreciate it. Please know that I am NOT looking for an airtight, ironclad, inerrant answer. I am just seeking a reasonable one. To me, that means, “Is this a reasonable explanation? Is this explanation something that I can live with while still acknowledging that there is a component of mystery involved? Is this the kind of explanation that I would feel comfortable offering to someone else as reasonable without feeling that I was twisting scripture or doing biblical “slight-of-hand tricks”? Does this explanation stand up to the rest of scripture and/or historical Christianity?” These are the kind of answers that I seek. Thanks again. seeking4truth (Seeking for truth - which makes a grandiose assumption that I would recognize it if I found it) |
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19 | George, do you believe? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101430 | ||
Thanks, Searcher. This is the "standard" answer that is given. I'm NOT saying it is right or wrong, just the typical answer. But it also gives me great pause to call myself a disciple. I simply don't do what these disciples did. A disciple, as I understand it, is a learner. And at this point, I am not so sure if it is the teachings of Christ that I should be learning or the person of Christ. Are they the same thing? Well, there certainly does seem to be a difference, doesn't there? After all, Christians belief that Christ is for everybody but that not all of His teachings are. Sincerely, seeking4truth |
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20 | Any literature? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101429 | ||
Thank you, Radioman2. I will bookmarked these sites and start reading shortly. seeking4truth |
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