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Results from: Notes Author: seeking4truth Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Family commitment? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101262 | ||
Hank, I stated my reason for coming to this forum in my very first post. I've heard that the NASB is the most accurate translation so I want to understand why there seems to be these contradictions in the Bible. I am seeking truth. To me, that means an ideology that does NOT contradict itself. After all, doesn't God say that he is not the author of confusion? If the ideology about God, Jesus, and the Bible is true (as Christians profess), then it would seem to me that there would be no contradictions in what God says (in spite of the fact that Christians do not practice what he says). So, Hank, if you cannot give an honest answer to my question, then you are not welcome to interact with me. Your post reflects the same kind of close-minded ignorance that drives people away from considering God - "Any serious question towards the validity of God and his Word is ridicule." If it is truly truth, it should stand up to close scrutiny. If Jesus' teaching goes against the Law and tells people to hate their own family, then that is the belief system that is at fault, not my problem. Your response demonstrates the typical tactic used by cults - instead of examining the contradiction, attack those who are examining it. Your response is to ignor the question and question my motives. I have stated them. If you have no solid answer, then please go judge someone else. seeking4truth |
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2 | Any literature? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101292 | ||
Searcher56, That, sir, is what has lead me to my egnimas. I am looking at Jesus saying to hate your family and God's Law in saying to honor them and Paul's teaching to love them, and, frankly, they don't jive. I am not looking at exbiblical literature. I am looking at the scriptures themselves and they (seem) to conflict. All I want to do is to understand the contradiction. God says to honor, Paul says to love, Jesus says to hate. If all three are true, then it is a truth beyond my ability to understand. I admit that some faith is required. But while Christians claim the inerrancy and infallibility of the scriptures, they seem to ignor any seeming contradictions. If I trust in the God of the Bible, I want to be able to share a reason for that trust, not to just brush aside a question or an issue because it does not fit with my personal theology. seeking4truth |
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3 | I'm skeptical | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101293 | ||
Thank you, Tim, for understanding where I am coming from. I am not searching for differences in minutiae. I am searching for concordance between doctrines. In other words, it is not my goal to take a magnifying glass to the scriptures to ensure that every 'i' is dotted and every 't' is crossed. But it is my search to see if there are significant doctrinal differences. Granted, my "significant" may not be your "significant". But, in this case, I was reading where Jesus said that he came to fulfill the Law. But then he seems to teaching AGAINST the revealed Law and I don't see how (at this point in my search) to reconcile it. If Jesus was born under the Law (Gal 4:4), then why did he seem to go against it and give the Jewish leaders reason to accuse him of violating the Law? I am not expecting a thorough, iron-clad, water-proof defense in detail. But I am seeking something to point me in the right direction. Thanks for your response. seeking4truth |
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4 | I'm skeptical | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101297 | ||
Listener, Thanks for your input. Even as I was reading some of these responses that question my own motives for posting here, it occurred to me that maybe we are told to love our enemies because we, being finite, can NEVER see the heart of another and God, being infinite, can. Maybe that qualifies him alone to judge. Just a thought. seeking4truth |
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5 | Any literature? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101298 | ||
Thank you, DL5. I will seek to be fair and non-argumentative. Again, my goal is to better understand, not to debate. And thanks for the book recommendation. Please read a few of my other posts in this thread to know a little more about me. seeking4truth |
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6 | I'm skeptical | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101300 | ||
Aixen, To repeat another of my posts here, I made a profession of faith in Christ when I was 12. Whether it "took" or not is debateable and I do not wish to debate it at this time. Please see my other posts. seeking4truth |
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7 | Purpose of this forum? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101303 | ||
Shalor, ***Some do it (make disciples) simply beacuse they were ordered to do it! Maybe. But, from my studies, I doubt that getting a person to say the "sinner's prayer" and then moving on to the next fish in the sea is a valid interpretation of "discipling." No offense to you, but maybe if I had been discipled when I was younger, I would not have the crisis of faith that I am now experiencing. Unfortunately, those who led me to a profession of faith felt that they were finished after I got "saved." Their goal was achieved. Here I am 30 years later with serious doubts and one of the answers put to me is that if I would only get "saved" again, everything will be alright. I think not. No offense, just my human opinion. seeking4truth |
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8 | Purpose of this forum? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101334 | ||
Hi Tim, Thanks for the input. Our individual exposures to different churches most likely influences some of our thoughts in this area. Personally, I have been in a number of different churches of a few different denominations so I have had a few different experiences concerning evangelism. But I have not been exposed to everything that is taught in this area. My statements concerning evangelism were never "taught" to me as a formal discourse. They were more implied by statements such as these: "God will reward you for sharing Christ." "If you don't tell your friend, relative, coworker, who will?" "You don't want this person to stand before God on judgement day and say that YOU never told them about Christ, do you?" "If you don't witness, this person's blood and the condemnation of his eternal soul will be upon your hands." I have heard these statements. Granted, I may have traveled in the wrong Christian circles (but ALL of them claim to be right and NONE of them claim to have ANY false teaching). I am inclined to believe that if the fate of an eternal soul is left up to my pitiful attempts to share what little I know (and am still unsure of), then God is much smaller than the Bible portrays Him as being. While I don't deny that I may have a command and some good news to share, I am not even sure of my own fate, let alone a positive influence on someone elses. And frankly, I won't share what I am not reasonably sure of. In closing, I don't want to lay the blame for my doubts and my questions solely at the door of this particular church, denomination, or person. What happens to me in my own faith is, to a large extent, dependant upon me to "study to show myself approved." But I often feel more like the Ethipoian who doesn't have a clue rather than like Paul who could convert Hitler if given the chance. seeking4truth |
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9 | Any literature? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101336 | ||
DairyLeader, I just emailed you. Thanks. seeking4truth |
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10 | Purpose of this forum? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101380 | ||
BTW, Pastor, thanks for the link. I will check it out tomorrow afternoon. Confused, seeking4truth |
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11 | Any literature? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101429 | ||
Thank you, Radioman2. I will bookmarked these sites and start reading shortly. seeking4truth |
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12 | George, do you believe? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101430 | ||
Thanks, Searcher. This is the "standard" answer that is given. I'm NOT saying it is right or wrong, just the typical answer. But it also gives me great pause to call myself a disciple. I simply don't do what these disciples did. A disciple, as I understand it, is a learner. And at this point, I am not so sure if it is the teachings of Christ that I should be learning or the person of Christ. Are they the same thing? Well, there certainly does seem to be a difference, doesn't there? After all, Christians belief that Christ is for everybody but that not all of His teachings are. Sincerely, seeking4truth |
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13 | Any literature? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101432 | ||
Thanks to ALL who have sent me internet resources for Bible apologetics and seemingly contradictions in God's Word. I appreciate it. Please know that I am NOT looking for an airtight, ironclad, inerrant answer. I am just seeking a reasonable one. To me, that means, “Is this a reasonable explanation? Is this explanation something that I can live with while still acknowledging that there is a component of mystery involved? Is this the kind of explanation that I would feel comfortable offering to someone else as reasonable without feeling that I was twisting scripture or doing biblical “slight-of-hand tricks”? Does this explanation stand up to the rest of scripture and/or historical Christianity?” These are the kind of answers that I seek. Thanks again. seeking4truth (Seeking for truth - which makes a grandiose assumption that I would recognize it if I found it) |
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14 | True Disciples - eternal importance | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101433 | ||
Aixen, You wrote: "Seeker seems to have one overarching question and several underlying questions." So true. My main struggle is believing the teachings of Jesus. I admit that. Yes, I want to put whole-hearted faith and trust in Him. And He taught so that others would place their faith and trust in Him as Messiah. But I desire a reasoned faith. The "blind" faith of my childhood has brought me no peace and joy. I feel like Thomas, "Lord, I believe, help Thou my unbelief." seeking4truth |
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15 | Hebrew idioms? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101449 | ||
Yes, George, do pray for my poor soul. "Blessed are the poor in spirit" as Jesus once said. But you misunderstood my post. I was NOT saying that I would interpret all scripture as idiomatic. I am asking by what guidelines do we decide when/what scriptures should be taken at face-value and when they should be interpreted as idiomatic. I am sorry that you feel that I am here to fool anybody. That is not my intent. And if we have the Spirit of God, I would think that we could rest assured that He would lead us into all truth. I have posted my questions and sought help. I have not threatened anyone with fire and brimstone if they don't agree with me. Not everyone is going to be comfortable with my questions. That is fine. If not, then there are quite a number of threads on this forum that may be more according to the gifts that we each posess. I admit that I have doubt. But, George, is it possible that God could use my doubts (and others' help to me) as a stepping-stone to greater faith and trust? If I thought that the answer to this was "no", I never would have considered posting here. I have some dealings with ex-Christians, my friend. It is not pretty scenario. Some sincere folks are leaving Christianity because of all the infighting and judgementalism that exists under the umbrella of Christianity. Instead of pointing out sin and error for the purpose of restoring such a soul, Christians are pointing out sin and error in order to judge a soul. And these people who have doubts are leaving because Christianity is often seen as a blind faith whose followers can quote plenty of scripture but cannot offer any solid reasoning. This despite the fact that, I believe, God created the reasoning process to begin with. It is easy, George, to categorize and label many of these folks who desire a sincere, reasoned faith as "reprobate" and to shake the dust from your feet. But Jesus seemed to have a penchant for going after even one lost sheep. Is this only the unsaved? It is much more difficult and time-consuming to try to understand WHY we believe what we believe. C.S. Lewis is one of my favorite Christian authors. His book, "Mere Christianity", more than any other (except the Bible) has influenced me to give serious consideration to the concept of one God who has chosen to reveal Himself to humanity. I wish to God that He would raise up another C.S. Lewis in THIS generation who could help people to understand that God and His ways could be known experientially, not just recited. seeking4truth |
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16 | Christ and Christians? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101452 | ||
Aixen, Yes, I am with you. While I would agree that all scripture is breath-out by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness, I would not use every verse the same way in the same manner. For example, the teaching in the OT which says that animal sacrifices should be done, while being a true teaching in and of itself, actually pointed to the "truer" truth that Jesus Christ is the once-for-all-sacrifice. If I was to use passages in Leviticus (as a "Bible-believing Christian") to prove to others that animal sacrifice is commanded by God and by the Bible, I would not be accurately handling the word of truth, would I? The truth of animal sacrifices in the OT is made plain in the sacrifice of the Lamb of God in the NT. I think that the writer of Hebrews calls the OT a "shadow" of the reality in Christ. Perhaps we should start a new thread to continue this conversation? I don't know all the "netiquette" rules here on the forum. But, yes, I think I am following you. seeking4truth |
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17 | Hebrew idioms? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101469 | ||
George, thanks for your note of encouragement. I will endeavor to take to heart what you say. You may be right about God alone being able to provide what I seek. Isn't that one of the axioms of the Christian faith - that God has created us for Himself and we are restless until we find Him? At the same time, I believe that no man is an island and that while God is perfectly capable of revealing His truth to me without any other human interaction, I find that He frequently does use fallen vessels to contain and convey divine truth. And, to the best of my knowledge and conscience, I DO have some faith. To think that my 3 pounds of brain could completely understand the infinite mind of God would be extremely presumptous. But I am not so sure that it is the amount of my faith that is important as it is the object of my faith that is key. Some things may be meant to be known. Other things may be the secret things that belong to God. Either way, I do acknowledge that we must come to Him and then walk by faith. But again, it is not a blind faith, it is faith in seeing that (the inverse of what you stated) God is not a man that He should lie. If that is true, then we should find something of that assertion put forth in the Bible. If God is God, then His truth does not depend on me. Nor is there one thing that I can say or do to change it. I only seek to understand it better. Grace and peace to you, George. seeking4truth |
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18 | Hebrew idioms? | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101492 | ||
Thank you, Emmaus | ||||||
19 | I'm skeptical | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101494 | ||
Thanks, Emmaus. Found the article and read it. It is always interesting on how many different meanings and connotations that words can have. While a literal translation (like the NASB) can render the appropriate non-English word into English, it would seem that we need some type of extra-biblical references to help us delve into the many nuances and facets of the original languages. I am going to try to find the Word Study reference (was it Zhodiates?) that someone here mentioned. Maybe that will help me to better understand some of the words and phrases that often challenge my own limited knowledge. seeking4truth |
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20 | I'm skeptical | Luke 14:26 | seeking4truth | 101502 | ||
Emmaus, yes, I know the post was yours, my friend. I was just referring to some reference book that someone else mentioned that, from what I understand, goes indepth into the meaning of the Bible words. It could be helpful. As to your being a Catholic Christian, that is between you and God as far as I'm concerned. I'm not even sure that I am a Christian so I'm certainly not in any position to judge anyone else. But I do understand what you are saying in reference to "father", though. In my particular translation, the next verse says not to call anyone "instructor" because Christ is the instructor. I am not sure why this particular label is not called into question. Maybe (only a guess) because in Western culture, we don't often address each other as "teacher" or "instructor." As I understand it, the Jewish word "rabbi" was frequently used to show deference and to acknowledge authority. But my culture doesn't often use such a designation. In grade school, my teachers told me to call them "Miss...(this or that" or "Mrs...(this or that)". "Teacher" or "instructor" was not often used. In college, things changed a little with "professor" but even that title only signifies one who professes something. Another reason that "instructor" may not receive as much attention is that Jesus never seemed to call God "Our Instructor Who art in heaven." He often referred to God as Father but I don't recall Him ever referring to God as "instructor" or "teacher." Nevertheless, the role was certainly there, wasn't it? Jesus said that He didn't say anything unless the Father told Him to say it and that He didn't do anything unless the Father told Him to do it. It is possible that the roles may have been interchangeable, don't you think? After all, fathers should be instructors. And somewhere the Bible says that Jesus Himself LEARNED OBEDIENCE. Now, there is one to make you scratch your head. That's my 2 cents. I certainly won't claim that it is the word of the Lord, just my opinion. But I admit that I am probably the world's worst Pharisee in that I often get caught up in the letter of the law and ignor the Spirit behind it. So keep that in mind. seeking4truth |
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