Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Notes Author: ne14pool Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Please provide responses to these verses | Luke 8:13 | ne14pool | 89566 | ||
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Of coarse, I do believe this scripture (as in all scripture) and it does not contradict what I was stating. We are commanded to repent, that doesn't deny that God must first grant us the ability to repent. Nor does it imply that those who don't repent won't still be held accountable for their unwillingness to repent. Because both statements are true. One person receives God's mercy the other receives God's wrath, both will glorify God. That to is biblical (See Romans 9) God also commands us to be perfect? There is no way within ourselves that we can obey this command, but it does drive us to the cross of Christ, crying out for mercy. But is any man other than Christ perfect? No, we are not perfect. However, we are perfect in God's eyes because for those who have been given the gift of faith (the elect), he has credited the Righteousness of Christ to our account and will not hold his sins against us. Why? Because he has given us the gift of faith by which we receive His grace. Yes we have faith, but only because God has given it to us. We exercise the gift because we were regenerated and brought to life by His Holy Spirit working in our hearts. The result of begin brought to life by God's Spirit is that we will be convicted of our sins and will repent. These things are all a result of God's gifts, which include faith, and repentance. You quoted A.W. Tozer and I would also like to quote Tozer from the Pursuit of God where he said, I like what A.W. Tozer said in the book "The Pursuit of God" He was commenting on taking credit for accepting Christ; and said, "We pursue God because, and only because , He has first put an urge within us that spurs us to the pursuit. "No man can come to me, " said our Lord, "except the Father which hath sent me draw him, " and it is by this very prevenient drawing that God takes from us every vestige of credit for the act of coming. The impulse to pursue God originates with God, but the outworking of that impulse is our following hard after Him; and all the time that we are pursuing Him we are already in His hand." You asked me, "Did God do your repenting for you? Or did you personally need to repent of the sins you committed?" God granted to me the ability and the desire to repent. Yes, I repented, but only because God enabled me to. I can’t boast about "my" repentance. He regenerated me to life so that I could repent and believe. God brought me to life to believe and repent. Once I set my eyes upon Christ I could not resist Him. You also asked me my understanding of Hebrews 6:4-6. I think the important thing to pay attention to in this verse is the word "tasted". For Christ said in John 6:53-54 "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. This person that is spoken of in Hebrews 6 only "tasted" of Christ. Just as food, it doesn't actually become a part of you until you consume it. So it is with Christ. This person in Hebrews was only testing driving Christ (if you will). That is my understanding of this scripture. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. (Heb. 6:4-6 NASB) |
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2 | Please provide responses to these verses | Luke 8:13 | ne14pool | 89451 | ||
NC, You said, God does not do our repenting or believing for us. So let me get this straight, YOU muster up the ablility to repent and believe? That is interesting when Scripture clearly tells us in 2 Tim 2:25-26 Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will. NOTICE: Who GRANTS them repentance? It is clear that God does. The word GRANT in the greek means... means to give. It is a gift of God. Who should I believe? I am sorry but I have to believe Scripture! Then read what Scripture says about whose work it is to believe... The Jews asked Jesus what THEY must do to do the works that God requires. Jesus response is very revealing. He did not answer what work they must do, but He told them what the work of God is. John 6:28-29 Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." NOTICE: In order for us to believe it takes a work of God. Once again there is Phil 1:29 For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for him, Granted means to receive as a gift of God's grace. You were given the faith to believe in Him. It is the gift of God. You didn't muster up your own faith. Please don't boast in YOUR faith before the Lord! Your faith is the work of God. Then you said, How then do you explain the fact that Judas who was numbered with the other 11 apostles was lost. In what sense is this verse true? Judas may have been numbered with the disciples, However, in John 13:18 Jesus made it clear that Judas was not one of his chosen ones. When he said, "I am not referring to all of you; I know those I have chosen. But this is to fulfill the scripture: 'He who shares my bread has lifted up his heel against me.' The Bible does not contridict itself. Scripture must be interpreted with Scripture. That is why eternal security and the perseverance of the Saints is clearly taught in the Bible. Yours in Christ...Doug PS... Isn't your user name, New Creature come from 2 Cor 5:17? If this is true then don't you believe what it says? Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! NOTICE: The old has GONE! That means GONE! Not to come back again! It touches on Eternal Security! Very interesting!! |
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3 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | ne14pool | 89044 | ||
NC, This was not my interpretation, but I agree with what it is expounding. However, I believe you're missing the main point of this article. Please don't throw the baby out with the bathwater here. We have to read this verse in context. What is the topic of the first part of John 15? There is no doubt that the context is "bearing fruit", well we know that only Christians can bear true fruit that remains. I believe you are taking this verse out of context if you are attempting to make the topic suddenly change to salvation. That is not what is being discussed. The context is fruit bearing. Compare the first part of John 15 with 1 Cor 3:11-15 where it speaks again of good fruit and bad fruit... it says, "For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames." NOTICE: The that he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping THROUGH the flames. Even believers will pass through the consuming fire of God's judgement when it comes to our works. If they are wood, hay and stubble (a.k.a. bad fruit not done on the foundation of Christ) then they will be consumed and in the fire like a dead branch, however if they are gold, silver or costly stones they will not be consumed but will pass through the fire along with the individual who passes through the fire even if he didn't have any or much fruit, he will make it through the fire. That is scriptural and I want to warn you to seriously consider what is being said here. In Christ...Doug PS Please read my posting that was made Fri 07/11/03, at 2:37am. It may shed further light upon this topic. |
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4 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | ne14pool | 89022 | ||
New Creature, Further note in regards to John 15:6 speaking of destroying these branches: do you suppose he talking about the person or his bad fruit? I believe that he is talking about his fruit since this seems to be in line with the entire passage and in context with the topic which is about the branches that are "in Christ" and the main topic is bearing fruit. Verse 6 says, "If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned." I think it is important to remember that the one that is the gardner is the Father and if it is the Father that is gathering the branches and casting them into the fire, that seems to contradict John 5:22 that says...the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son. I think that if you read John 15:6 in contrast with 1 Cor 3:12-15 it makes a lot more sense. The passage says, "If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames." Notice that the he himself will be saved, but his (so-called) fruit was consumed. This fruit was the labor of his own flesh and it was not fruit that was done for the glory of God, but most likely it was done to be seen by man and for the glory of the man himself. We know that that man has received his reward. (Matt 6:16) John 15:6 can also be compared with Matt 5:13 where it says, "You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men." You have probably already considered all of these verses, but that is my take on this verse. I like how Pink ended his exposition on this verse with these heart searching words, He said....... "Here then is a most solemn warning and heart-searching prospect for every Christian. Either your life and my life is, as the result of continuous fellowship with Christ, bringing forth fruit to the glory of the Father, fruit which will remain; or, because of neglect of communion with Him, we are in immense danger of being set aside as His witnesses on earth, to bring forth only that which the fire will consume in a coming Day. May the Holy Spirit apply the words of the Lord Jesus to each conscience and heart." It is my prayer that when Christ does come back for us that He will he will find us faithful. Amen? In Christ....Doug |
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5 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | ne14pool | 89021 | ||
New Creature, I wanted to share with you a portion of an expostion by a great preacher who once wrote in reference to John 15:6... But what is meant by, "Men gather them, and cast into the fire, and they are burned"? Observe, first, the plural pronouns. It is not "men gather him and cast into the fire, and he is burned," as it would most certainly have been had an unbeliever, a mere professor, been in view. The change of number here is very striking, and evidences, once more, the minute accuracy of Scripture. "Unless any one abide in me, he is east forth as a branch, and men gather them and cast into the fire and they are burned." The "them" and the "they" are what issues from the one who has been cast forth "as a branch." And what is it that issues from such a one—what but dead works: "wood, hay, stubble"! and what is to become of his "dead works." 1 Corinthians 3:15 tells us: "If any man’s work shall be burned (the very word used in John 15:6!), he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." Lot is a pertinent example: he was out of fellowship with the Lord, he ceased to bear fruit to His glory, and his dead works were all burned up in Sodom; yet he himself was saved! In Christ...Doug |
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6 | Doesn't this seem like a contradiction? | Rev 13:8 | ne14pool | 88496 | ||
Tim, The way I see it is, all God needs to do for Pharaoh to do evil is to remove his hand of grace upon Pharaoh and guess what - Pharaoh will do what comes natural to him. He will do that which is contrary to the Spirit of God. So for God to harden any heart, all he has to do is to move his hand of grace away and the heart will harden. So I really don't see it as a contradiction, but as God moving away his grace and allowing Pharaoh to do what his wicked heart will naturally do. Does this make sense? This does not remove Pharaohs responsiblity. His still will be held accountable to God for his actions. Because for anyone to do any good, God must move in the individuals heart to cause him to do good. All of this to His glory. Even Pharaoh's wrath bring's God praise. For we know that the wrath of man brings God glory for it says in Ps 76:10 "Surely the wrath of man shall praise You; with the remainder of wrath You shall gird Yourself." (NKJ) In Christ...Doug |
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7 | THE CROSS | John 3:16 | ne14pool | 88255 | ||
Tim, You had asked the question: If God only died for the elect, where is the verse that says that He only died for the elect? I did not see where the question was answered. So I thought I would attempt to answer it. I believe there are several Scriptures that support that Christ's sacrafice was only for a particular group. The following verses touch on the extent of the atonement: Notice the Scriptures use the word "many" (which is exclusive). Matt 26:28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. Mark 10:45 "For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many." Heb 9:28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. Also notice in John 10, where Jesus said that he laid his life down for "the sheep". He did not say "for all men", but exclusively for the sheep. John 10:14-15 "I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me--just as the Father knows me and I know the Father-- and I lay down my life for the sheep. (NIV) There are a few verse that seem to support that Christ's sacrafice was for a particular group (the Elect). In Christ...Doug |
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8 | THE CROSS | John 3:16 | ne14pool | 88254 | ||
Tim, You had asked the question: If God only died for the elect, where is the verse that says that He only died for the elect? I did not see where the question was answered. So I thought I would attempt to answer it. I believe there are several Scriptures that support that Christ's sacrafice was only for a particular group. The following verses touch on the extent of the atonement: Notice the Scriptures use the word "many" (which is exclusive). Matt 26:28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. Mark 10:45 "For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many." Heb 9:28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. Also notice in John 10, where Jesus said that he laid his life down for "the sheep". He did not say "for all men", but exclusively for the sheep. John 10:14-15 "I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me--just as the Father knows me and I know the Father-- and I lay down my life for the sheep. (NIV) There are a few verse that seem to support that Christ's sacrafice was for a particular group (the Elect). In Christ...Doug |
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9 | THE CROSS | John 3:16 | ne14pool | 88253 | ||
Tim, This is my first posting in the StudyBibleForum, so pardon me for jumping into the midst of this string. I have read many of these postings and find the discussions extremely interesting. I wanted to comment on your statement, "unless the adjective 'all' is modified in some way, it means 'all'." I am not a Greek scholar by any means, however I do know that there are two ways that "all" is defined in the N.T. The Greek word is "pas", which can be understood to mean either individually or collectively (some of all types). Rarely in the N.T. is it used to mean individually, in most cases it carries the collective meaning. So to say that "All means all and that is all all means." Would not be an accurate statement. I have pasted the strongs definition below, and below that I have pasted a quote from C.H. Spurgeon regarding this issue. 3956 pas including all the forms of declension ; adj 1) individually 1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything 2) collectively 2a) some of all types C.H. Spurgeon, from a sermon on Particular Redemption: ... "the whole world has gone after him" Did all the world go after Christ? "then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan." Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem, baptized in Jordan? "Ye are of God, little children", and the whole world lieth in the wicked one". Does the whole world there mean everybody? The words "world" and "all" are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture, and it is very rarely the "all" means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts: some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted His redemption to either Jew or Gentile ..." In Christ....Doug |
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