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Results from: Notes Author: The Disciple Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Can one loose their salvation ? | Bible general Archive 1 | The Disciple | 26939 | ||
TO ALL: I truly LOVE this question. This question has caused more debate in my life than most anything I've heard. Trust me when I say..I dont know the answer. But my question to ask about this debate is: Can we outsin Grace? dark_lard - the lambs book of life is a good positon to take for this debate. My question to you would be. If in John 3:16 God gave His Son for you and me and the rest of the world. Would not all of the world be included in this book? You see, I notice that this book has already been written with the names. Hence, someones name being taken out. But I would have to presume that IF I dont accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior that is when it will be blotted out. Does not all which transpires at the time of judgement depend on our position of who Jesus is to us personally? Is that not ONLY what the Father wants from us? Obedience and salvation work hand in hand. If we obey the Father in that we believe His Son is Jesus ...what more is needed for salvation? Works is not a need to get to heaven is it?....Lord dont let me convolute the story...**PEACE** |
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2 | Can one loose their salvation ? | Bible general Archive 1 | The Disciple | 26940 | ||
Kalos, I LOVE IT...!!!!!!!!!!!! Should not all our answers and questions be as such? SIMPLE...? **PEACE** |
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3 | Can one loose their salvation ? | Bible general Archive 1 | The Disciple | 27138 | ||
Kalos, It would seem those who dialogue in here are just like the people i run into from time to time. And I too have been caught up in seeing more into a question or wondering why someone didnt give a better or more meaningful explanation. YET, we may find the simplest answers are the best and probably more in tune to how the Lord would have answered them. That is unless you go into parables ...ehehehe...for an answer. I certainly would enjoy further correspondence from you if you care to .... for me...iron sharpens iron as one man does for another....rightly dividing the word is what i desire the most(i hate to convolute the Word if i can help it) . I have found some very provacative words from many others in this forum and i would enjoy dialogue with anyone who cares to...so here is my email address. josh2415@bigfoot.com i am considering changing my nickname....its current status makes me sound like im a done product...when i am not...i should probably change it to BeingDiscipled....or something to that effect. I should have considered a bit more thought before making it my nick. My apologies to anyone to whom may think I am being arrogant using the past tense term. *Shalom* |
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4 | Can one loose their salvation ? | Bible general Archive 1 | The Disciple | 27140 | ||
Lanny, Thats quite a interesting verse indeed. Castaway is defined in NKJV as disqualified and a cross ref is Jeremiah 6:30. I wonder if vs 27 Jer6 "..that you may know and test their way" casts a shadow on the person being tested? As in 1Cor9:11...."..those who are approved". Found to be believers of the True and not the heresies or NKJV says "factions"? What I think I am seeing is the LORD helping us to see it from HIS perspective. And not from our human perspective. With the LORD as THE "author and finisher of our faith" ...I would rather see HIS perspective in the case of my salvation. In that verse, "But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself have become disqualified." is Paul talking about salvation or is he addressing what others are testing: his qualifications of being a teacher, apostle, etc? His reputation seems to have been in question from the start of his ministry. After all, in Acts 17:11 he tells us the Bereans were more "noble" than the Thessolinicans. They tested all his teachings by scrutinizing from the their Bible to make sure what he was saying lined up. Personally, I dont think Paul was referring to salvation in this case. I would consider this to be personal to his ministry. Prov 15:28b was probably something Paul held dear. ....Lord dont let me convolute the story.... *SHALOM* |
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5 | Can one loose their salvation ? | Bible general Archive 1 | The Disciple | 27141 | ||
ashestobeauty, Wonderful choice of Scripture.!! ....Lord let US not convolute the story.... *Shalom* |
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6 | Can one loose their salvation ? | Bible general Archive 1 | The Disciple | 27142 | ||
Hank, God LOVE you... I certainly hope to attain the grasp you have in text. I should desire to become your protoge' so I can. If you care to take on such a craft....please email me. josh2415@bigfoot.com I would so enjoy fine tuning my inability to write so elloquently as yourself. Now does that last statement prove a point or what? *Shalom* |
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7 | Can one loose their salvation ? | Bible general Archive 1 | The Disciple | 27246 | ||
Hank, I agree with all you say about first and foremost importance is our relationship with HIM. Also, the NKJV and NASV are my usual course for study. It would seem we have the same mind in that respects, and of course not trying to make the other translations, transliterations, etc seem any less important. These of course are just a personal choice for the grammatical and literal sense. And for you to think your not of a caliber to be emulated...well...how about being a mentor instead? Which was what I was trying to say. *LOL* I too have a passion for prose but my structure is something to be desired. I dont want to go back to school for its been a few too many years since ive been there. And so far as I can see, since becoming a child of Christ, (1991) ive found my learning more on my own; drastically at a higher level and standard than what ive learned in the past from school. But my punctuation and use of sentences are minimal in understanding. I like teaching myself and have been a mentor to others over the years with wonderful blessings from HIM thru it all. Know this Hank, you are a mentor if others just want to read and grasp your heart of what you read. (You may not know your one). Hope we can correspond about Biblical dealings, questions that are hard to grasp personally and/or for others. josh2415@bigfoot.com is not my name...its Joshua 24:15 "...as for me and my house we will serve the Lord." .....Lord dont let me convolute the story..... Humbly yours, Discipled (soon to change to BeingDiscipled) *SHALOM* |
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8 | Can one loose their salvation ? | Bible general Archive 1 | The Disciple | 27514 | ||
Lanny, I shall approach your following verses for more scrutiny before I reply to your wonderful ascertation. But I dare ask again.... can we outsin GRACE? There are so many verses regarding Grace...see the topical section of Strongs Concordance. (In case you or others dont have it) A. Descriptive of: Gods Favor..................Gen 6:8 Gods forgiving mercy........Rom 11:6 Gospel......................John 1:17 Gifts(miracles,etc).........1Pet 4:10 Eternal Life................1Pet 1:13 B. In the source of: Salvation...................Acts 15:11 Call of God.................Gal 1:15 Faith.......................Acts 18:27 Justification...............Rom 3:24 Forgiveness.................Eph 1:7 Consolation.................2Thess 2:16 C. Described as: All-abundant.................Rom 5:15-20 All-sufficient...............2Cor 12:9 Glorious.....................Eph 1:6 Great........................Acts 4:33 Manifold.....................1Pet 4:10 Rich.........................Eph 2:4,5 Undeserved...................1Tim 1:12-16 D. Believers: Are under.....................Rom 6:14-23 **** (persoanl favorite...helps us to see our view amidst the Lords view) Recieve.......................John 1:16 Stand in......................Rom 5:2 Abound in.....................2Cor 9:8 Be strong in..................2Tim 2:1 Grow in.......................2Pet 3:18 Speak with....................Eph 4:29 Inherit.......................1Pet 3:7 E. Dangers of, can Be abused.....Jude 4 Be Frustrated...Gal 2:21 Be turned from...Gal 5:3,4 Be Blessed. Shall our works be the author and finisher of our faith. Or shall HIS agape thru us be that which see's us through this life? This question is posed in my mind most often when I consider my flesh. Shall I continue to view life through my eyes ...or shall I learn to see through HIS ? Rom12:1-3 ......Lord dont let me convolute the story..... *SHALOM* |
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9 | Jezebel spirit how to recognize? referen | Bible general Archive 1 | The Disciple | 32702 | ||
Did you know there is substantial evidence that the spirit of Jezebel is at hand today? And that the church is called to follow the mantle of Elijah, like John the Baptist did? But then again, could all this be a hype to help some alarmists to sell books?????? *shalom* D |
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10 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 30340 | ||
Blessings All, I have been reading with supreme interest all that has been posted about these passages. What a wonderful study it is indeed. First, I will not presume to know all the answers in these passages nor I hope not to sound dogmatic in what I may state to presume or suggest. I do have a question about vs.4, "There were giants on the earth in those days(a), AND ALSO AFTERWARD, when the sons of God came in to the dauthers of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown." a) "those days" is x-ref'd to: Num13:32,33 Nephilim is used in both instances. Rephaim is used to define the descendants of Goliath. 2Sam21:15-22, Gen 15:20. The Anakim were from the Rephaim? who were from the Nephilim? Long and ardusous study for those who like to find caveats. "AND ALSO AFTERWARD"... afterward of what? Post flood ? Since this chapter and the surrounding paragraphs deal with the coming of the flood. Then isnt it safe to assume that "after" the flood is being discussed also? As for Job 1 and 2: Job 1:6,7, "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. And the Lord said to Satan,'From where do you come?' So Satan answered the Lord and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it." The Lord asked Satan "from WHERE do you COME?". Does this not mean, Satan was somewhere else as opposed to the place he is now? If so, then he came from earth. If this be the case then where is he when he presents himself with the others "sons of God"? This looks to be Heaven, since they came to GOD. We know this by seeing "they came to present themselves before the Lord"...not "The Lord came to them." This is more than likely a heavenly meeting, thus, no humans? Back to Gen 6: "Those were the mightly men..." Who were those? Would they not be whom was dicussed just prior ? Those born to the women and the sons of God? I shall break for now, and will look for posts from this and continue from there. But I would like to say, the "sons of God" are looking very much like heavenly beings. As defined from the Oldest Book found by man. ...Lord dont let us convolute the story... *SHALOM* D ps: use the search tool above and type in Gen 6:4, then click on Can angels have human babies? and check out the posts made therein. |
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11 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 30471 | ||
INTERESTING take indeed J-man. I have to ask though, how do you come to your conclusion on the "and afterward" as discussion of the offspring of daughters and sons? The chapter itself in context is about the coming flood and this should tell us the nephilim were pre and post flood. But I shall look deeper into this and not read all the commentaries on this chapter from scholars of past and present to influence my bent. *shalom* D |
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12 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 30498 | ||
J-man..I read and reread the chapter...and the verse in question. Namely, vs 4 of chapter 6. "There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown." 1. "There were giants on the earth in those days,..." The previous 3 verses talk strictly about men multiplying on the earh and daughters were born to them. These sons of God took the daughters as wives. THEN the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be 120 years." (120years can verily be seen as a Grace period for mankind before the flood(His wrath). Before we discount this thought....look carefully at the time it took Noah to build the Ark.) In vs 1-3: He tells us giants were in these days.... are not these days He is speaking the days of men multiplying?? And if we agree that 'sons of God', i.e. from Job 1 are heavenly bodies, then these could very well be the same type. That is if we consider what is stated next in vs 4. 2. "...and also afterward," Afterward of the days that were just spoken of...can we agree? What came after these days that HE speaks of?...the Flood? If so, then these giants (or men as God calls them) came after the flood. HOW? - is what we should be asking.... how did these giants find there way back if Noah and his family were all that was left... was Noah a Nephilim...??? doubtful...veryyy doubtful. 3. "...when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them." In all translations you should find 'children' italicized. The inference of children is there because of the words, 'bore to them'. These children then, 4. "Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown." ....the mighty men of old...interesting if we look at Gen 6 as we do Gen 1...an overview of things to be stated later and revealed. You will most likely find most commentaries supporting these mighty men ...Nephilim as they are called..."mighty ones of old" to be of UN-natural origin. With what is said in 2Peter2:4; Jude6,7; Job1:6; Gen3:24(inference of angels taking on human form?) John 8:44, we find out who the father of lies is. Cannot his minions been used to decieve mankind into themselves as being dominate with the stature of these beings?? In 2peter2:4, the word Tartarus is used and not Hades, Hell, Abyss, or any other word. This is the only place that this word is found. Since this is a special place for these special minions of Satan, could they not be put here because of the fact they left thier 'familiar habitat'? And that 'habitat' they left was their heavenly body? I dont believe any of us can stand 'dogmattically' on either side of this issue. We shouldnt - considering its not essential to our salvation. But, you have to admit - this is one of those rare areas that it is nice to share viewpoints. *shalom* D |
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13 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 30499 | ||
Jesusman, Check out my post attached to my last one to you. I should have attached it to one of your own...so you would receive it in your email. sorry. D |
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14 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 30743 | ||
Jesusman, Thank you for supporting alot of what I had said earlier, and what you said previous to that. Dare we read Jude 1:6,7 again? Lets do a less than exhaustive study... Let us start with vs 5 which is the beginning of this paragraph in question. v5- "But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe." v6- "And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;" v7- "as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vegence of eternal fire." Lets dig now and see what could be AN answer (not The) to the issue at hand. vs 5 - For sake of argument, I wont delve deeper than needed. We are agreed that this verse tells of something already known to the readers; those who did not believe were destroyed. Definitions are from Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words. In order to reference in the Vines Dictionary, I need to read from KJV for this verse. 6a- "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation,..." "estate" - Pg 207 Notes (5) In Jude 6 'arche', (is defined) principality, Revised Version and KJV 'principality' According to Vines: Pg 488 Last paragraph (arche), In Jude 6, RV, it signifies, not the first estate of fallen angels (as KJV), but their authoritative power, "their own" indicating that which had been assigned to them by God, which they left, aspiring to prohibited conditions. See: Begin. Pg 58 B.Noun - Begin(arche) is defined as a verb - "to be first" 6b- "but left their own habitation,..." "habitation" Vines Dict: Pg 286 1. oiketerion, is used in Jude 6, of the heavenly region appointed by God as the dwelling place of the angels. Would this be a safe variation of v6 ? "And the angels who voluntarily decided to dismiss their authoritative position assigned by God, knowing full well of the prohibitive conditions. They left their dwelling place (heaven). He(God) had these angels reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." v7 - "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner,..." KJV "as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them IN A SIMILAR MANNER TO THESE..." NKJV In the NKJV vs6 ends with a semi-colon (;) and verse 7 begins, "as". A semi-colon tells us, co-ordinate clauses having a relationship in meaning not explicity stated are being seperated. I guess you can say, what was just stated is being defined a little bit better. Here in the Bible the writer is using S and G as a point of reference to what was just stated. In the KJV v7 starts out, "Even as" "As" simply defined. Same, just like. so vs7 tells us... "Just like S/G and the cities around them IN LIKE MANNER(KJV)...IN A SIMILAR MANNER TO THESE(NKJV)..." In the New American Standard Bible (NASB), vs7 reads, "Just as S/G and the cities around them, since they as in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire." What may we see is being stated here? Did the angels in vs 6 knowing full well the outcome of their exploits leave their original place of authority and their home to partake of the flesh? Or have I "read into" the definitions as laid out by my Vine's Dictionary? In all the versions I have at my disposal(8) the cross references to vs 6 are all the same. 2Pet2:4 1Tim5:21 Job 1:6 Gen3:24 All have one thing in common...Angels. ...Lord dont let me convolute your story... *SHALOM* Discipled |
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15 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 30782 | ||
Another note to the issue... Brief conclusion: The writer is trying to show us that what was stated in the previous verse is still the topic of the next verse. Namely angels and how like in S/G they went after strange flesh. These angels are different from others we know about because they willingly left their abode(habitation) knowing the consequences of doing so. 2Pet2:4 is crossed to Jude 6. The place of holding is called Tartarus, a place of final punishment. Involves severe limitations of action, symbolized by 'chains'. Almost total lack of understanding, symbolized by the darkness. A special place indeed. Saved for special punishment because of special circumstances? Why were these angels put their? The only scripture that can coincide is found in Jude 6, where, "reserved for judgent" is found again. I can only hope to believe we are both wrong in our endeavors for truth in this issue. The Lord may tell us when we get to Him...we were so cloooooooooose...but yet. How much more can we see if we were to do a verse by word by precept search of this passage? I pray we both can glean that which is lovely from all this. *SHALOM* Discipled |
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16 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 31209 | ||
Jesusman, I just got home from a long road trip and heading out again tomorrow. I havent had time to read up on all my grammer of Greek n Hebrew. But I will look into it. But I must ask. Those who wrote the Bible in our language I am presuming took into account all the things you say about punctuation,etc. But then maybe not. I would like to address one thing about Gen 6:4 though before we go on addressing grammer. "There were giants in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them..." Is the punctuation or grammer in this verse questionable also? I ask for sake of argument, it says,"In those days, and also afterward..." Are we agreed that it is speaking of before and after the flood? If not, then tell me what and I will look deeper into HIS word and glean from it. If it is about Pre and Post Flood. Then my question of concern is this: How did Cains lineage make it after the flood to procreate with Seths lineage? This truly is a confusion to me. *shalom* Discipled |
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17 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 31212 | ||
Jesusman, You have not supported your idea that Job was among the group of Satan and God and the sons fo God. But there has been ample defintion from my part using Vines to support the idea that the sons of God were indeed "heavenly bodie" as well as they were not on earth but in heaven. A careful study of what is being said wil show us that. Job 1:6: "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord..." they came to God ... no implication of going to a surrounding of rocks (altar) or going to the tabernacle or the temple etc. It says they CAME TO PRESENT THEMSELVES BEFORE THE LORD... There have been times that the Lord pcame to men and its says as much. And times of men presenting themselves to the Lord at a specific place noted in the verses. This is a time that these beings came to GOD...where is God? In heaven? or is the implication on earth? "and Satan came among them also..." No need to read anything into this...it means what it says. "And the Lord said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Where is the Lord and Satan now? IF Satan came from someplace and is now before the Lord, does this not imply that he has moved from one place to another? "S Satan answered the Lord and said, "From going to and fro on the earth..." So if Satan is now on earth before the Lord at this meeting...why is Satan answering in such a profundity? Or is Satan in heaven standing before the Lord with sons of God(line of Seth?). What am I reading into this? How can this be a worship, church service as you imply? And how is Job even among these? If you were to do a word search you may see that the Lord says to Satan in verse 8 ..."Since you have been considering, have you seen he is upright...etc." How else does Satan know about the hedge on Job and his uprightness? You see, Satan is not omnipresent and has to go to earth to get his info. Or am I in left field??? *shalom* D |
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18 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 31214 | ||
Jesusman, Verse 6 sarts out, "Now there was a day..." Which means to me, that what was just stated is now being expanded. Or not? Gen 1 is like this... alot of information given...then chapter 2 and 3 and so on expand on what was previously stated. Guess this was written like that to clarify or substantiate a moment, a period of time, a thought or what have you. OR not? *shalom* D |
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19 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 31263 | ||
Tim, I agree with what you say. How did the line of Cain survive the flood. So how do we find the Nephilim after the flood? The usggestion by some and the contents of some of what the Bible is telling us....looks like it points to the sons of God not being human. Be that as it may, this converstaion on Gen..Jude..2Pet and others presents some very wonderful and provacative thought. *shalom* D |
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20 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 31264 | ||
Love Fountain, Thank you for the page from the ISBE...it more or less says all the same arguments we have stated to those who dont see the scripture as we do. Seeings how you enjoy this dialogue...maybe you would also be interested in some more provacative dialogue. Type in Acts 2:6 in the search and look up the question... "When will I speak/pray in tongues"...enjoy the string.... *shalom* D |
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