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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Rhantizo vs. Baptizo- Synonyms? | NT general | Bobby1971 | 198409 | ||
CDBJ, No disrespect received. I'm just trying to make sense of the NASB's apparent translation of the word rhantizo in one place and baptizo in another place for what might be the same ceremonial ablution ceremony. Concerning the baptizing in the Jordan River, I suppose they could have been standing IN the Jordan River while water was poured over their heads, as many paintings illustrate. Don't get me wrong, however, I think the many times baptizing is described in Scripture, it appears a large body of water was needed, which would indicate that they weren't likely just needing it to stand in it so they could merely pour water over their heads. Bobby |
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2 | Rhantizo vs. Baptizo- Synonyms? | NT general | Hank | 198435 | ||
Dear Bobby :: I know neither biblical Hebrew nor Greek, but I do know a little about English, Latin, German and French; and in those four languages the meaning of a word or phrase is determined by the way it's used in a passage, i.e., by the context. Good translators the world round, no matter what language they are working with, seem to agree that context is of paramount importance in translating from one tongue to another. Evidently the Greek words you call into question had various shades of meaning to the ancient Greeks, depending on how they were used and the meaning the context gave them, just as words do today in modern languages. When John the Baptizer led his followers INTO the Jordan river to be baptized, and when both Philip and the Ethopian went down INTO the water. as recorded in Acts 8:38, the clear context leads one to conclude that immersion in water was the thing that occurred, not the sprinkling or pouring on of a small amount of water. There is a ton of commentary extant on this topic, but I believe the careful reader, who is willing to leave his pre-suppositions behind, will have no problem in understanding, even in translation, what the term baptize means. ..... If you're still curious, why not do as CDBJ suggests and ask Lockman. --Hank | ||||||
3 | Rhantizo vs. Baptizo- Synonyms? | NT general | Bobby1971 | 198443 | ||
Hank, Thanks for the input. Actually, my concern does not have to do with how baptisms occured in the Jordan River. My question is that if the Greek manuscript used by Lockman for Mark (Mark 7:4) had the word "rhantizo" for the same Jewish ablution ceremony that Luke refers to using the word "baptizo" in Luke 11:38, does this mean that "baptizo" and "rhantizo" were synonymous. If so, then the biblical use of "baptizo" would indicate that "baptizo" does not always mean "immersion," which most baptists seem to indicate that it must always mean. How does one actually contact the Lockman Foundation? Do you know what their e-mail address is? Thank you, Bobby |
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4 | Rhantizo vs. Baptizo- Synonyms? | NT general | skccab | 198444 | ||
bobby nasb@lockman.org The Lockman Foundation PO Box 2279 La Habra, CA 90632-2279 Phone (714) 879-3055 Fax (714) 879-3058 Cheri |
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5 | Rhantizo vs. Baptizo- Synonyms? | NT general | Bobby1971 | 198454 | ||
Cheri, Thanks for the information. I'm in the middle of a dialogue now about this with a seminary professor, and it looks like he's going to completely explain this. Once this is concluded, and with his permission, I'll post his explanation here. If I still have issues, I'll be sure to contact the Lockman Foundation. In Christ, Bobby |
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6 | Rhantizo vs. Baptizo- Synonyms? | NT general | Bobby1971 | 198505 | ||
Below is the information given to me by a professor from "The Master's Seminary": 1. These texts refer to two different events, although they deal with the same subject of non-biblical, ceremonial washings. 2. Baptism is not in view in either passage, and therefore conclusions drawn from these passages in their unique context should not be automatically shifted over to the baptism question. 3. I have consulted BAGD and DNTT – two of the best lexical works available.- for the following remarks. I use the UBS 4th ed. GNT. 4. There is a textual variant in Mark 7:4 – rhantizo (sprinkle) vs. baptizo (dip, immerse). The best and most recent conservative Greek scholarship rejects the former and champions the latter which is the preference in the ESV and NIV English translations. Thus, the question of sprinkling can be deleted from the discussion. 5. Mark 7:2-3 use nipto and aniptos respectively. That verb/noun family means to “wash” without specifying the means or mode. Therefore, they add nothing as to further defining the manner in which the washing took place. 6. The double use of baptizo in Mark 7:4 and single use in Luke 11:38 define the particulars of the washing. This word group always means to dip/immerse. It is used in other water contexts of drowning a person and sinking a ship. 7. Therefore, we can conclude that Mark 7:2-3 uses the generic term “wash” while Mark 7:4 (twice) and Luke 11:38 specifies a washing by dipping/immersion in contrast to pouring or sprinkling. 8. The final question regards the illustration in the MSB notes on Mark 7:3. No one knows for sure exactly how this procedure was carried out at that specific time. The illustration given is one possibility, but there are others. I favor the possibility of cupping one’s hand to receive the water and then dipping/immersing one’s other fingers/hand. 9. Thus, both passages are consistent in context and in the language used without creating an apparent contradiction with regard to either the manner of ceremonially washings or of baptism. |
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