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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | does this mean a person is unforgiven | NT general | King T | 222629 | ||
Hi Doc, I think the first time I just hurried through your comment hence missed the second part to your comment. Well, where I come from English is not my native language; it is my third language I’d say, so I do not master it that much, but I try to understand it. To best understand the second part to your comment where you said, “Note also that repentance does not merit redemption. The redeemed live a life of repentance.” I had to refer to the dictionary and not the Bible. Primarily I wanted to understand the “merit” part of your statement. The Oxford Dictionary that I used defines merit in Theology as “good deeds entitling someone to a future reward” and I trust this is what you meant. I trust my response to your comment will prompt you to qualify your answer but I strongly disagree with your statement. In redemption a price is paid for a product and in Christian terms the product was the world and the price paid was the blood of Jesus. Jesus Christ bought the whole world and not only the believers or the Christians. He bought the whole world, the sinners included. 1 John 2:2 (KJV) “And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” The difference is the Christian is aware of this transaction and has made a decision of acceptance. The Christian has repented and is reconciled to Christ. Your statement will be generally true as a cliché, but is not true in the Christian perspective. The Bible specifically states in Romans 10:13 (KJV) that “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Reading from verse 9 (AMP) of the same chapter “Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.” This therefore explains the calling upon the Name, not just a mere shouting of the Name. I will rather you read through from verse 9 up to 14. I wonder why the Bible would say whosoever shall call on the name if your statement is true. The Christian has gone beyond redemption dude, the Christian has been justified. In redemption you pay for the product with all its imperfections (sin), but in justification the sinner is declared not guilty, the sins are not just forgiven but completely wiped off – that is justification. Romans 3:24 (KJV)” Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:” The price was already paid hence no need to pay another price which is why we were freely justified. It does not end with redemption. The law could not justify, Romans 3:20-24 (AMP) “For no person will be justified (made righteous, acquitted, and judged acceptable) in His sight by observing the works prescribed by the Law. For the real function of the Law is to make men recognize and be conscious of sin not mere perception, but an acquaintance with sin which works toward repentance, faith, and holy character. 21 But now the righteousness of God has been revealed independently and altogether apart from the Law, although actually it is attested by the Law and the Prophets, 22 Namely, the righteousness of God which comes by believing with personal trust and confident reliance on Jesus Christ (the Messiah). And it is meant for all who believe. For there is no distinction, 23 Since all have sinned and are falling short of the honor and glory which God bestows and receives. 24 All are justified and made upright and in right standing with God, freely and gratuitously by His grace (His unmerited favor and mercy), through the redemption which is provided in Christ Jesus,” I had to include verse 23 to avoid being accused for selecting favorable verses. If you read the whole chapter, you will realize that verse 23 should not be read in isolation and it refers to those under the law. The law did not remit sins if you could fully appreciate verse 20 of Romans 3, but Jesus did. Galatians 4:4-5 (KJV) “But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.” I do not want to take most of your time wish I could say more for there is more on the subject. Stay blessed, King T! |
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2 | does this mean a person is unforgiven | NT general | DocTrinsograce | 222640 | ||
Dear King, Merit is a matter of that which is earned. What we have earned is death (Romans 6:23). Redemption is a matter of grace (Ephesians 2:8-10). Wages are what is justly deserved by the one who works; a gift is undeserved, otherwise it would be a wage (Romans 4:4-5). If the slightest amount of merit is introduced, then grace evaporates (Romans 11:6). The price of redemption was not paid to the world. "The Lord Jesus, by His perfect obedience and sacrifice of Himself, which He through the eternal Spirit once offered up unto God, hath fully satisfied the justice of God (Hebrews 9:14; 10:14; Romans 3:25-26), procured reconciliation, and purchased an everlasting inheritance in the kingdom of heaven for all those whom the Father hath given unto Him (John 17:2; Hebrews 9:15)." (LBCF chapter 8, paragraph 5) Romans 10:13 is not an expression of condition (if a then b) but of inclusion -- note the context (v12). One must take care not to confuse imperatives with indicatives. "If anyone says that God has mercy upon us when, apart from his grace, we believe, will, desire, strive, labor, pray, watch, study, seek, ask, or knock, but does not confess that it is by the infusion and inspiration of the Holy Spirit within us that we have the faith, the will, or the strength to do all these things as we ought; or if anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, 'What have you that you did not receive?' (1 Corinthians 4:7), and, 'But by the grace of God I am what I am" (1 Corinthians 15:10).'" (Canon 5 of the Council of Orange) "These [good] works, as they proceed from the good root of faith, are good and acceptable in the sight of God, forasmuch as they are all sanctified by His grace. Nevertheless they are of no account towards our justification, for it is by faith in Christ that we are justified, even before we do good works; otherwise they could not be good works, any more than the fruit of a tree can be good before the tree itself is good. Therefore we do good works, but not to merit by them (for what can we merit?); nay, we are indebted to God for the good works we do, and not He to us, since it is He who worketh in us both to will and to work, for his good pleasure. Let us therefore attend to what is written: When ye shall have done all the things that are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants; we have done that which it was our duty to do. In the meantime we do not deny that God rewards good works, but it is through His grace that He crowns His gifts." (Belgic Confession Article 24) "...we confess that the good works which we do proceed from his Spirit, and can not be accounted to us for justification." (French Confession Article 22) See also the Heidelberg Catechism, questions 62 through 64; Savoy Declaration of Faith, chapter 16; Second Helvetic Confession, chapter 16, paragraph 4; the Thirty-Nine Articles, article 12; the Waldensian Confession, Articles 20 to 23; and the Westminster Confession of Faith, chapter 16. In Him, Doc |
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3 | does this mean a person is unforgiven | NT general | King T | 222645 | ||
Doc, Doc, Doc! Once again I find myself caught between your article (post) and the dictionary, but I will manage. Romans 6:23 - aren't we reading that in isolation? It doesn't say we we earned death. Let us may be take it from verse 22. Ephesians 2:8-10; Romans 4:4-5; Romans 11:6 I don't see where you and I are disagreeing. "The price of redemption was not paid to the world" - true it was paid FOR the world. Romans 10:13 I just revisited the verse and my post where I referred to the verse, I just can't understand where you derive your expression of condition from. The Heidelberg Catechism, questions 62 through 64 - I never said we earned righteousness, but thank you for referring me here. If I wrote something to make you believe otherwise, it could be my English, but I am getting better with every visit to the dictionary. French Confession Article 22 - Good Lord! Doc, where is this works issue emanating from? The Bible is very clear on the subject. Paul did not mince his words on the subject, Ephesians 2:8-10 that you referred to earlier obliterates the believe on works. Belgic Confession Article 24 "So we would always be in doubt, tossed back and forth without any certainty, and our poor consciences would be tormented constantly if they did not rest on the merit of the suffering and death of our Savior." Now I see where you get this merit issue from. I never wrote anything to claim we worked for our salvation though. I think the response from Beja explained your earlier comment in much simpler terms. All these, the Savoy Declaration of Faith, chapter 16; Second Helvetic Confession, chapter 16, paragraph 4; the Thirty-Nine Articles, article 12; the Waldensian Confession, Articles 20 to 23; and the Westminster Confession of Faith Chapter 16 are good readings. These are just man made doctrines. Personally I prefer the Bible which I trust these doctrines were derived from. As for heresy dude, I am reading that article by Richard Alderson. Unfortunately I can't post my comments on the same page. Martin Luther, whom Richard Alderson derived his anti law term from, was accused to be heretic by those who did not understand him. By the way, Jesus Christ himself was accused by those who did not understand him. However, my prayer is for us to continue studying the Word of God "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:" - Ephesians 4:13. Waiting for more from you: Proverb 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend. You are my friend aren't you? Stay Blessed, King T! |
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4 | does this mean a person is unforgiven | NT general | King T | 222647 | ||
P.S. Doc, 1. Thirty-Nine Articles, Article 12 - Of Good Works, 2. Westminster Confession of Faith Chapter 16 - Of Good Works, 3. Second Helvetic Confession, Chapter 16, Paragraph 4 - Concerning Good Works, 4. Waldensian Confessions of Faith, Article 20 - 23, Hey Doc, I could not get this one. Give me a link please, but I trust it is more on good works. I am not inviting for a sermon on this very particular statement, but my curiosity got the better of me. To understand you better, I had to read what you recommended. I trust you misunderstood me - I never asserted that works can amount to a trophy before God. However, where we strongly vary is on the law. Unfortunately, I cannot refer you to any scholarly material like you referred me. All I have is the Bible - the same scripture that you have but it seems we vary in our interpretation. There is no harm to it now, we will eventually come to a common understanding. Well, you really kept me occupied, now I have to go back to my Bible. I really love this forum. Stay blessed, King T! |
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