Results 1 - 20 of 21
|
||||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Three Days and Three Nights | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 234212 | ||
Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that the phrase “x” days and “x”nights was ever used in the first century or before when it didn’t include at least parts of the “x” days and at least parts of the “x” nights? | ||||||
2 | Three Days and Three Nights | Bible general Archive 4 | DocTrinsograce | 234213 | ||
Hi, rstrats... Welcome to the forum! I believe you mean practice rather than idiom. Yes, the Hebrews would include the first thing in a series as one, the second as two, etc. If they said, "two days hence" that would be what you and I would call tomorrow. The Greek and Roman practice would be to skip the current day as we do today: "two days hence" would mean the day after tomorrow. In Him, Doc |
||||||
3 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 234214 | ||
Do you have any information with regard to the documentation requested in the OP that shows the use of the phrase “x” days and “x”nights being used in the first century or before that absolutely didn’t include at least parts of the “x” days and at least parts of the “x” nights? | ||||||
4 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | DocTrinsograce | 234218 | ||
Hi, Rstrats... Only insofar as I have seen it harmonized in various lectures. I never found it particularly problematic or sufficiently intriguing to persue it very far. In my experience, the issue is primarily used as a hook to draw people into a questionable hermeneutic; e.g., Russellites use this approach, etc. In Him, Doc |
||||||
5 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 234219 | ||
OK, thanks. Perhaps someone new looking in will know of some documentaion. | ||||||
6 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | DocTrinsograce | 234220 | ||
Seems to be a lot of stuff "out there" on the net... Here are a couple of them http://biblelight.net/pasover.htm http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/crucifixion/2.html |
||||||
7 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 235526 | ||
DocTrinsograce, re: "Note: Seems to be a lot of stuff 'out there' on the net... Here are a couple of them http://biblelight.net/pasover.htm http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/crucifixion/2.html" I'm afraid I don't see where the two links show an actual example of a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely doesn't/can't include at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights. |
||||||
8 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | DocTrinsograce | 235542 | ||
Hi, rstrats... Hmmm... Both articles address the chronology of the Passion Week. How about another couple of links? Sorry, they'll take some reading, though. http://carm.org/how-long-was-jesus-dead-tomb http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/570 In Him, Doc |
||||||
9 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 235927 | ||
Doc, re: "http://carm.org/how-long-was-jesus-dead-tomb http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/570" Again, I don't see where those two links show an actual example of a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely doesn't/can't include at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights. |
||||||
10 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 236360 | ||
Perhaps someone new looking in will know of some writing. | ||||||
11 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 237529 | ||
Since it's been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of some writing. | ||||||
12 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | Morant61 | 237537 | ||
Greetings Rstrats! I was reviewing one of the articles that Doc provided for you, and it did indeed include historical references to the practice of counting any part of a day as a full day. The article says, " While to the 21st-century reader these statements may initially appear to contradict one another, in reality, they harmonize perfectly if one understands the different, and sometimes more liberal, methods ancients often used when reckoning time. In the first century, any part of a day could be computed for the whole day and the night following it (cf. Lightfoot, 1979, pp. 210-211). The Jerusalem Talmud quotes rabbi Eleazar ben Azariah, who lived around A.D. 100, as saying: “A day and night are an Onah [‘a portion of time’] and the portion of an Onah is as the whole of it” (from Jerusalem Talmud: Shabbath ix. 3, as quoted in Hoehner, 1974, pp. 248-249, bracketed comment in orig.). Azariah indicated that a portion of a 24-hour period could be considered the same “as the whole of it.” Thus, as awkward as it may sound to an American living in the 21st century, a person in ancient times could legitimately speak of something occurring “on the third day,” “after three days,” or after “three days and three nights,” yet still be referring to the same exact day." Source: http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/570 This article also lists several great examples of this practice from Scripture. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||
13 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 237542 | ||
Moran61, re: "I was reviewing one of the articles that Doc provided for you, and it did indeed include historical references to the practice of counting any part of a day as a full day." Indeed it did, but that is not what I am looking for. As regards the Jewish practice of counting any part of a calendar day as a whole calendar day I would agree, but when "nights" is added to "days" to yield the phrase "X days AND X nights" it normally refers to a measurement of a time period where "day" refers to the light portion of a 24 hour period and "night"refers to the dark portion of a 24 hour period. No one In the history of apologetics as far as I know has ever presented any historical documentation that the phrase X days AND X nights was a unique first century idiom of Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek which could mean something different than what the phrase means in English.. If you have such documentation, I would very much like to see it. That is what the OP is requesting. re: "The Jerusalem Talmud quotes rabbi Eleazar ben Azariah, who lived around A.D. 100, as saying: 'A day and night are an Onah [‘a portion of time’] and the portion of an Onah is as the whole of it' (from Jerusalem Talmud: Shabbath ix. 3, as quoted in Hoehner, 1974, pp. 248-249..." Azariah's interpretation of the meaning of the phrase, "A day and a night make an Onah, and a part of an Onah is as the whole" doesn't seem to make any sense. On the one hand he is saying that a day AND a night define an Onah and then he turns right around and says that a day OR a night define an Onah. What makes more sense is that the rabbi is saying that a day is an Onah and a night is an Onah but that any part of a day can be counted as a whole day and any part of a night can be counted as a whole night. And that interpretation is supported by Rabbi Ismael, Rabbi Jochanan, and Rabbi Akiba, contemporaries of Azariah, who all agree that an onah was 12 hours long, either a day OR a night. "Commentary on the New Testament from the Talmud and Hebraica". Also, a definition of Onah from "The Jerusalem Center for Advanced Torah Study" says: "The word onah literally means 'time period.' In the context of the laws of niddah, it usually refers to a day or a night. Each 24-hour day thus consists of two onot. The daytime onah begins at sunrise (henetz hachamah, commonly called netz) and ends at sunset (shekiat hachamah or shekiah). The night-time onah lasts from sunset until sunrise." re: "This article also lists several great examples of this practice from Scripture...http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/570" I'm sorry, but I don't see where the link shows an actual use of a phrase from the first century or before where a period of time is stated to consist of a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights where the period absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights. |
||||||
14 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 240309 | ||
Since it has again been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of some writing. | ||||||
15 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 240496 | ||
Perhaps a rewording of the OP will make it a little more clear: Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a common Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone (who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" means the tomb) knows of any writing that shows that a phrase stating a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely couldn't have included at least parts of each one of the specific number of days and at least parts of each one of the specific number of nights? |
||||||
16 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | DocTrinsograce | 240497 | ||
Hi, Rstrats... Eighteen months on the same topic, certainly must represent a new monothematic record. As that time frame only has to do with your participation in this forum, it is even more remarkable that this obsession appears to span multiple forums. Since this all consuming preoccupation has been going on so long, perhaps some new topic might warrant your attention. The Scripture has much to say, I can affirm with great certainty, having far greater impact on your life here and now. Shifting your attention to other things, will be the evidence of a genuine desire for truth. In Him, Doc |
||||||
17 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 240609 | ||
DocTrinsograce, re: "Shifting your attention to other things, will be the evidence of a genuine desire for truth." How will shifting my attention to other things provide the truth about the assertion that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language? |
||||||
18 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 241964 | ||
Someone new looking in may know of some writing. | ||||||
19 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | ipl | 242250 | ||
Have you searched the cuneiform at cdli.UCLA.edu? When searching for "days" it gives 637 instances over 169 texts. When searching for "days and" there 3 relevant entries out of 4 found. P468903 173:After 3 days and 3 nights had passed p469679 199:for seven days and seven nights p469682 264:Three days and three nights did not pass ... the city was raked by a hoe. |
||||||
20 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 242252 | ||
No I haven't. Do you know for a fact that your references show where a daytime or a night time was counted as a daytime or a night time when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time actually occurred? | ||||||
Result pages: [ 1 2 ] Next > Last [2] >> |