Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Call from God! | Bible general Archive 4 | DocTrinsograce | 217468 | ||
Dear Mike, I never read "tone" into posts. Too much subjectivity is necessary to ferret out what people are emoting. I just treat the text as text, and take what people write at face value. The frees me from the burden of interpreting emotion. It is a difficult enough task to derive denotation from what people are writing than to have to worry about connotation too. Dr. Francis Roberts was quite distanced from the Salem witch trials to which -- I think -- you are referring. He was over 3,000 miles away, and dead for 25 years before the first incident. Even those trial transcripts, though, if read within the context of what was actually taking place in New England make more sense to believers than they do when obliquely and critically referenced by non-Christian historians of the twentieth century. It was Puritan ministers that put a stop to the witch trials being carried out by the colonial government in Massachusetts. How often will you hear that fact these days? You might be interested in Cotton Mather's account of that period in America in his book entitled "The Wonders of the Invisible World." Given what they were facing, I wonder how men like you and I would have dealt with the issues? I also wonder how we will fare in the eyes of believers who come hundreds of years hence. Will the only descriptions accepted of us be from people like Barney Frank and Richard Dawkins? Or will we be known by having quotations of Joel Osteen and Robert Schuller? Will they wonder how we tolerated the killing of millions upon millions of infants? Perhaps they will even say that "Christian America" was responsible for the legalization of abortion. In Him, Doc |
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2 | Call from God! | Bible general Archive 4 | strts5 | 217474 | ||
Doc, I speak from ignorance, so apologize in advance. I will do more reading as I am sure the Puritans have many treasures to offer the modern Church. Without much knowledge of the Puritans, at face value my "opinion" is they spent much of their time doing "works" out of fear. They do not seem to have a confidence in the Salvation of Christ toward all who believe, but rather lean toward predestination and live their lives in fear that they may not be predestined. Something that the Baptist Church has a firm grasp on. They know they are saved and only do good works out the abundance of that knowledge. The puritans seem motivated by fear, and when fear is the motivation it has been my experience something is lacking. Now this is only my opinion out of a very cursory study of Puritans. Please feel free to correct me if I misunderstand something. In Love, Mike |
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3 | Call from God! | Bible general Archive 4 | DocTrinsograce | 217480 | ||
Dear Mike, Interestingly enough, the Puritans were much given to writing journals. Consequently, we have a huge quantity of information about how they thought and lived. Jonathan Edwards represents the pinnacle of Puritan thought wrote, "The enjoyment of [God] is the only happiness with which our souls can be satisfied. To go to heaven, to fully enjoy God, is infinitely better than the most pleasant accommodations here. Fathers and mothers, husbands, wives, or children, or the company of earthly friends, are but shadows; but the enjoyment of God is the substance. These are but scattered beams, but God is the sun. These are but streams. But God is the fountain. These are but drops; but God is the ocean." Predestination is actually a very minor point in Puritan thinking. Like the fear thing, it looms large in the minds of those who resist the doctrine of God's sovereignty. Paul is the one who brings it up in his epistles to the Romans and the Ephesians in the context of assurance in God's eternal purpose. As I pointed out before, the Puritans were concerned that nothing of the Scripture be ignored or augmented. (By the way, predestination is a Baptist doctrinal distinctive too, you know.) In terms of the idea that works give rise to salvation -- this is called legalism -- that doctrine is alien to Puritanism. The ordo salutis is well documented in the Westminster confessions. The Baptist thinking on this point actually lifts that language directly from the Westminster confession. :-) Mike, I hope that you would seriously ferret out the truth. Historic revisionism has stolen a wonderful set of Christian brothers from many of us these days. What a shame that our modern shallowness, ignorance of history, and reverse chronological chauvinism prevents us from knowing those who went before us. The consequence is that we fail to learn from them, no matter whether those lessons might represent correctness or error. Consequently, we continue to fail in revival, zeal, righteousness, knowledge, etc. If you want to begin to ferret out the truth, a very easy and enjoyable read is Peter Marshall's "The Light and the Glory." It will help to put the Puritans in proper historical perspective. In Him, Doc |
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4 | Call from God! | Bible general Archive 4 | Searcher56 | 217482 | ||
God's day to you, Doc, I am confused. It is you who thought Francis Roberts was a Purtian (ID# 217401). The Frances Roberts that Mike mentioned is his grandmother (ID# 217451). Why are you pushing the Purtian Roberts? I believe you are wrong and owe Mike an apology. Next time do a little research. Or am I wrong? Searcher |
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5 | Call from God! | Bible general Archive 4 | Makarios | 217485 | ||
Greetings Searcher56! According to http://www.puritanboard.com/f18/francis-roberts-22125/, "Francis Roberts, English Puritan (1609 - 1675) was a Presbyterian minister who conformed at the Restoration. He published a metrical version of the Psalms (1644) and is most famous for his "1750-page magnum opus on the covenants (The Mystery and Marrow of the Bible: viz. God’s Covenants with Man, 1657)," a copy of which exists at PTRS's Puritan Resource Center (1). For a recent study of his theology, see Won Taek Lim, The Covenant Theology of Francis Roberts (2007)." (posted by VirginiaHuguenot) Therefore, Doc is correct in pointing out that there was a fellow named Francis Roberts who lived during Puritan times. The fact that Mike mentioned his grandmother is quite possibly just a misunderstanding between Doc and Mike, and only clarification (and not an apology) would be needed to bring a more constructive approach to the dialogue. Blessings to you, Makarios (1) http://www.puritanseminary.org/ |
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6 | Call from God! | Bible general Archive 4 | stjohn | 217491 | ||
Amen. | ||||||