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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Does Satan Really Exist? | Bible general Archive 3 | drbloor | 166055 | ||
Does 'Satan' Really Exist? If 'Satan' is an actual person, how can the parallel accounts of Davids numbering of Israel be explained: 1 Chronicles 21:1 "And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel." 24:1 "And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah." If 'Satan' is an actual person, scripture would here indicate that 'Satan' is God. How is this possible? Secondly, if you believe that the 'war in heaven' of Revelation 12 is a literal war and not symbolic, how can it be understood in terms of it's correct chronological context: Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass." This means that the 'war in heaven' must occur some time after the giving of The Revelation - it must "shortly come to pass." This would place it historically some time after circa 70AD. In other words, if you believe that 'Satan' is a fallen angel, then you must also believe that he did not become a fallen angel until after the whole of The Bible had been written, thus preventing the 'Satan' of Revelation 12 from being the 'Satan' of the rest of The Bible. Okay, and thanks. Dr. B. |
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2 | Does Satan Really Exist? | Bible general Archive 3 | ebrain | 166121 | ||
My understanding of Job 1:6-12, is that Satan is a real person, the LORD says so , and that is good enough for me. It is abundantly clear from the above verses, and also Ch 2:6. that Satan is not able to do anything without Divine permission, this is confirmed in the NT at 1st Cor 10:13. This explains the apparent contradiction of 1 Cron 21:1, and 1 Sam 24:1. |
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3 | Does Satan Really Exist? | Bible general Archive 3 | drbloor | 166178 | ||
This is really what I'm talking about - you have read the name Satan in Job and assumed, without assessing external evidence (at least in this answer), that this refers to a fallen angel/evil supernatural being. Of course Job says none of these things. The word Satan in and of itself does not mean "fallen angel" or "evil supernatural badguy", it means quite simply "adversary". I am certain that there was an adversary in Job, and I am certain that he was a person, but I find it impossible to conclude that he was an evil angel. What you need to be able to connect the word Satan with a fallen angel, is a passage of scripture that says "Satan is a fallen angel". This passage is not in The Bible. We are given the stories of many righteous men - Noah, Abraham, David, Jesus, Paul etc. and even the stories of many wicked men in the Bible - Cain, Pharaoh, Saul, Nebuchadnezzar etc. But we are not given such a story about a fallen angel Satan (unless we pervert chapters such as Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28, which are clearly prophesies regarding earthly kings which came to pass). Also, I do not understand the idea that the fallen angel Satan cannot do anything except with Divine permission. This conveys the idea to me that Satan is not a fallen angel, but an obedient one, carrying out tasks according to Divine permission. It also begs the question - why did God give Divine permission for Satan to attempt to overthrow him? Finally, it's interesting to point out that the Apostle James (quite possibly the brother of Jesus) does not believe in Satan: James 1:14,15 "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." That is the sum of temptation - we are drawn away by our own lusts and enticed into sin. We have no-one else to blame but ourselves. |
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4 | Does Satan Really Exist? | Bible general Archive 3 | mark d seyler | 166187 | ||
Drbloor, Your logic is the same as those that deny the Triune nature of God. "Unless you can show me a verse that says. . ." The fact that the Bible speaks of Satan as an individual teaches his individuality: Zec 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. Zec 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? These are not words that describe a man alive in during the time of Tyre: Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. "thou wast the annointed cherub" How much of a clearer passage do you want describing the fall of an angel? Remember, God is sovereign. That is a clear teaching of the Bible. Act 4:24 And when they heard it, they lifted their voices together to God and said, "Sovereign Lord, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them, 1Ti 6:15 which he will display at the proper time--he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, Consider what it means to be Sovereign King of Kings. It means He has final say. On everything. James plants responsibility for sin squarely where it belongs - on the sinner. But he in no wise states a non-belief in Satan, and even says we are enticed. That is something that Satan does to tempt, he entices. The Bible most certainly teaches the creation, fall, and existance of Satan: Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. and best of all, his final judgment. Love in Christ, Mark |
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5 | Does Satan Really Exist? | Bible general Archive 3 | drbloor | 166195 | ||
Mark, Again, thanks for the quick answer! Without going into it again, please see my longer answer regarding Ezekiel 28, posted today. I have addressed the points you mentioned here, and it is evident that the remarkable leap you have to make to put Satan in Ezekiel 28 does not hold up under scrutiny. As for Revelation 20, I would argue that the Book of Revelation is a book of symbolic prophecy - not literal prophecy. I have, amongst others, a book written by Sir Isaac Newton "The Prophecies of Daniel and The Apocalypse" that puts this case very well. Newton, who actually wrote more about Scripture than about science, identifies the dragon of Revelation 12 with pagan Rome, and not Satan at all. If we believe that Revelation should be taken literally then we are all in enormous trouble, because actual stars are going to fall out of the sky onto the Earth (Rev 8:10, Rev 9:1 and Rev 12:4). If one is Sol, then it could arrive anytime soon, but the next closest star, Proxima Centauri could be a while, as it would take over 4 years to get here even if it began travelling at the speed of light immediately. However if Sol does decide to plunge into our planet anytime soon we will not, strictly speaking, be all that bothered about when the next one gets here. It does not make sense to begin picking and choosing what you decide is literal or figurative in Revelation, especially when a huge tracts of it can be categorically proved to be figurative. Furthermore, you have now created a direct contradiction now between Ezekiel 28 and Revelation 20. How can Satan "die", become "ashes on the earth" and not "be any more" in Ezekiel whilst at the same time be eternally tormented alive in a lake of fire in Revelation? The only way I can see to resolve THAT problem is that Ezekiel must be the false prophet joining Satan in the lake of fire...!! And finally, under no circumstance at all could Revelation 20 teach the creation and fall of Satan, as Revelation 1:1 tells us that the things of The Revelation are to happen after the Revelation, not before. So that would date any creation and fall you mention sometime after AD 70. Okay, it's late and I have posted far too much today! Good luck with all that and take care, Dr. B. |
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6 | Does Satan Really Exist? | Bible general Archive 3 | Ocelot | 166199 | ||
Regarding Ezekiel 28. There is something in the Bible that is know as “duel prophecy”. Here are a couple of examples. Mal 4:5 "Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD. Mal 4:6 "He will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers, so that I will not come and smite the land with a curse." Here we have an example of a duel prophecy. And here’s the proof: Matt 17:10 And His disciples asked Him, "Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?" Matt 17:11 And He answered and said, "Elijah is coming and will restore all things; Matt 17:12 but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands." Matt 17:13 Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist. In Matthew 17:11 Jesus says “Elijah is coming and will restore all things…” but then He says “but I say to you that Elijah already came”. Two prophecies in one. One applies to John the Baptist, and another to someone “before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD.” Another duel prophecy is that of the destruction of the temple at the hands of the Romans, and the second coming of Christ, found in Matthew chapter 24. Ezekiel 28, IS talking about the king of Tyre, and yet simultaneously about the fall of Lucifer. Ocelot |
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