Results 1 - 14 of 14
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | EdB | 128693 | ||
Chesed Why do you think there wasn't a sacrifice for David's sins? More importantly what makes you think he didn't offer sacrifice for those sins? If you are looking at the consequences he suffered due to those sins then I think you don't understand salvation. We can be forgiven for our sins but in many cases we must still bear the consequences of those sins. For instance some one robs a bank and shoots a guard. He can find Jesus and ask for forgiveness, but he will still probably have to serve life in prison for the bank robbery and murder. Just as someone that commits adultery, he can find Jesus and be saved but may still die from AIDS he caught in the adulterous affair, or he may even pass it on to his wife who may then give it to a yet unborn baby. God’s forgiveness of our sins does not always spare us from the heartbreak, tragedy and despair those sins created. That is one reason why we must try to always live within the guidelines God gave us for a prosperous and happy life. EdB |
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2 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128697 | ||
EdB, I am not saying that David didn't want to offer a sacrifice- if he knew that a sacrifice would forgive him then he would have. There were no sacrifices available to offer when someone broke the 10 comandments or sinned intentionally towards God. This is why in Ps.51 he appeals to God's mercy and compassion, rather than a sacrifice. Look at Numbers 14 when the people rebel against God. Did they offer sacrifices? No. They couldn't. They were left to the mercy of God, who forgave them because of the intercession of Moses. I completely agree that forgiveness is different than consequences. This is clear throughout the whole Bible. |
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3 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | EdB | 128711 | ||
Chesed Please explain what the sin sacrifice was for. Also explain the day of atonement. Where did you get there was no sacrifice available if someone broke one of the ten commandments? I agree David in Psalm 51 cries out forgiveness but this is an act of contrition more than anything. Hebrews 9:22 And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. EdB |
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4 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128712 | ||
Hi EdB, the sin sacrifice was to restore the relationship between God and the sinner. The day of Atonement was for the same reason, but in a communal sense, rather than an individual sense. But over and above all this, the sacrifice was to show the seriousness of sin, and the conseqeunces of it.(death). About Hebrews, the shedding of blood for forgivenss was in Jesus, not in animal sacrifice. "Where did you get there was no sacrifice available if someone broke one of the ten commandments?" I get this from reading the bible, and from noticing just that. Do you have an example contrary to my belief? I am not saying that I am correct...I am just saying that I have not seen an example of this, and that in fact when there was direct defiance towards God, no sacrifice was offered by the repentant person. chesed |
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5 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | EdB | 128715 | ||
Chesed Apparently David is an example. However your wrong about the communal sense. In Temple worship the blood flowed freely as each sinner came to offer a sin sacrifice for his sins. It is said at times the priest worked around the clock offering sacrifices on the behalf of the many sinners. How else was a man to find righteousness? Read Hebrews it explains the old and new way very clearly. EdB |
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6 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128716 | ||
EdB, sorry...I understand what you are saying, but not what you are meaning. could you please say that again? I don't uderstand the difference between what I said and what you have said. chesed |
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7 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | EdB | 128723 | ||
Chesed I'm sorry I posted this to myself instead of you. I will try again. From all indications in the Bible David died with his sin atoned for. If Hebrews 9:22 is correct then we must believe David did in fact offer a sin sacrifice and thus obtained his atonement. You say he gained atonement only through God's grace. If that were possible/true then the death of Jesus would have been in vain and unneeded. God could have just poured out His grace for all of us and it would have been sufficient. However God had established the only way for a sin to be atoned for was through the shedding of Blood. The shedding of animal blood only covered a year. It wasn't until Jesus the perfect and eternal Lamb of God sacrificed his myself and His blood was shed that we have eternal salvation. EdB |
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8 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128726 | ||
Please understand that I believe that Jesus is the only reason for grace and forgiveness. However, I think that those in the OT were forgiven in the same way we are: in light of the sacrifice of Jesus. We don't have to be lliving at that point in history to receive that grace. God knew from the moment sin entered the earth that Jesus would one day die for all sin. Because of this, he was able to forgive in the Old Testament and in the New. It is like someone who is in debt, but a rich man takes him to the bank and tells the bank that he will pay this debt the next day. The day that they go to the bank, the debtful man is relieved of his debt, even though the debt was not paid at that moment in time. The rich man was good for it, the bank knew he had the money and would pay it, so they were able to give the poor man freedom from his debt. | ||||||
9 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | EdB | 128731 | ||
Chesed Okay we have established and both now agree that Jesus was neccessary for salvation. Good! Now how do we handle John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. It says we must believe. I say the Old Testament saints that realized salvation through Christ did so in their belief the were unable to live sinless lives and were in need of a coming Messiah what would purchase their redemption. What are you saying? EdB |
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10 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128732 | ||
EdB, to state it simply, knowledge does not bring salvation- Jesus does. Yes, they were forgiven. Yes, Jesus is the reason. I am saying that if we did not have the NT, we would not be as clear on this fact. I am looking at this from an ancient perspective. They had faith in Yahweh. In effect, this was faith in Jesus...but how could they have known that? chesed |
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11 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | Hank | 128738 | ||
chesed: This thread is a prime example of what the sponsors had in mind when they said that this Forum is not intended to be a discussion forum but a Bible study forum. This thread is literally going around in circles, getting absolutely nowhere. Why? Because you are making sweeping statements and drawing conclusions faster than your correspondents can refute them, and you are NOT documenting your statements with Scripture. They are your opinions, your conjectures, and your conclusions, based on little if anything more than thin air. This is not exegesis of Scripture. You asked yesterday whether you could remain as an active user. That is up to you. Back up what you say with a sound scriptural foundation and stop endless "discussion" of your personal opinions. Otherwise, it's quite possible that you will wear your welcome out. In short, read again the Forum guidelines and abide by them, or else go find a "discussion" group if discussion of personal opinions, ideas, and presuppostions without regard to specific Bible reference and documentation is what you wish to do. I trust you understand this message. --Hank | ||||||
12 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128740 | ||
How can I back up my OT theology with NT scriptures? My whole point is that there are not any. You are asking the impossible. What I wish we could do is focus on one 'messianic' prophesy at a time and study it. This would satify both of our needs. |
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13 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | Hank | 128754 | ||
chesed: The key to and cause of your dilemma may well be accounted for by the phrase that you used, i.e., "my OT theology." When one uses such terms as "my theology" -- and is unable to back it up with solid scriptural support -- he is saying in effect, "This is my spin, my conclusion, my idea." I don't see that you have backed up your so-called OT theology with either of the two Testments, Old or New. Why don't you opt to end this thread now, before it becomes so long and pointless that it will be restricted from appearing on the home page?--Hank | ||||||
14 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128756 | ||
Hank. the only theology that any of us have is "my" theology. If you claim to be infalible, that is fine. I do not. I have been giving multiple verses in each of my posts for some time now... | ||||||