Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | EdB | 128559 | ||
Chesed I'm not sure how you formed your opinion but the Jewish religion was anticipating the arrival of the Messiah. Some true believers knew Jesus the instant they saw him Luke 2:21-38 as an example. The Old Testament saints did not know Jesus by name but they knew their redemption was promised in the Messiah and they lived their life depending on that Messiah to purchase their life. They lived and died in faith. They understood their righteous failed them and they needed the righteousness of the Messiah imputed to them and they accepted that in faith. The Jews were always looking for their Messiah, however many grew weary of the wait and tired to achieve righteousness in their own strength, in a effort to keep the law they hardened their heart to the intent of the law and became blind to the reality of the Messiah. Therefore when Jesus did arrive He did not measure up to what they expected and they rejected Him. However not all, a small remnant of true followers of God heard Jesus and accepted Him as their promised Messiah. EdB |
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2 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128588 | ||
EdB, Nice to meet you... I appreciate your perspective, but I just don't see how they would have anticipated a Messiah. It is clear that in the inter-testamental period that those thoughts arose and that they began to look for such a person, but in the majority of Israel's history, I don't think you can validate a claim such as the one you are making. Even so, like I said, if you could validate such a claim, that would only account for those in the Israelite community who did have access to God's revelation, and this would not include those who were outside of their community. A lot of the things that we consider "messianic prophesy" in the OT are not. The first legitimate one that I can think of would be Isa. 53...and who really understood what that was talking about until Jesus fulfilled it? with love, chesed |
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3 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | EdB | 128591 | ||
chesed I'm not sure I understand what you mean by those in the Israelite community and those outside. You were either the child of Israel or you weren't. I'm not going to argue over which Messianic prophecy the Jews held and which they didn’t. How would we ever prove it one way or the other. However we can see in many people were expecting the Messiah, obviously both Simeon and Anna in Luke 2 were. John the Baptist knew his mission was to prepare the way and thus preached the coming Messiah. Incidentally he knew Jesus instantly when he first saw him proclaiming behold the Lamb of God. The magi knew of the coming King of Israel the Messiah, as did Herod whom they told and also his scribes knew and were aware of where the Messiah was to be born. So when you say they didn’t know of the forth coming of the Messiah what then do you think Hebrews 11:13-16 is talking about? Also if they Jews could find salvation external to Jesus then when Jesus said He was the door no one would come to the Father but by him John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” We would have to say that wasn’t true and Jesus did commit sin. Perhaps you would care to offer some scripture to support your position now. EdB |
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4 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128595 | ||
Hello EdB :) What I mean by those outside of the Israelite community are the Gentiles who lived in other areas, such as Melchizedek, Balaam, etc. And as far as the NT scriptures you cited, I am in agreement. Those people were looking for a Messianic figure...a theology which was developed in the Inter-Testamental period. I am not saying that there are zero prophesies about Jesus in the OT. I am saying that there are very few, and the ones that we can find were probably irrelevant to those people at that time. Remember, I am talking about the ancient Israel in the OT, not 1st Century Israel. Your point is perfectly valid for those during and after the time of Jesus. * Yes, everyone is saved through Jesus. He is the only way. John was saying that Jesus is the way that people receive grace...he does not ever say that their perfect knowledge or understanding of Jesus saved them. |
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5 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | EdB | 128598 | ||
Chesed As for the Gentiles before Jesus they weren't saved. Melchizedek apparently was in relationship with God in ways we know nothing about much like Enoch. However from Adam through Abraham, David, Daniel and on up to the New Testament all old Testament saints will have gained salvation only in their belief of the coming Messiah. They all realized their righteousness was as filthy rags and they needed the perfect sacrifice to secure once and for all their salvation. The Gentiles are pagan and therefore not saved. EdB |
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6 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128599 | ||
EdB, I respectfully disagree with you here. Could you please give an example of How Adam, Noah, Abraham, etc. could have possibly had a saving faith in Jesus Christ? As for the pagan Gentiles, I believe that this concept of paganism was not as foreign to God's chosen people as you may like to think. Israel struggled with paganism and polytheism all the way up until Babylonian captivity. with love, chesed |
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7 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | EdB | 128601 | ||
chesed I'm not sure where all of this is going. Jesus said no one comes to the Father but by me. I think that pretty much says it all. Either you believed in need for Messiah to secure your righteousness before Jesus and believe in Jesus after Him or you don't have salvation. In any case those that died before Christ that had died looking for the Messiah to purchase their salvation went to Hades to the side called Abraham's Bosom ‘Luke 16:19-31’ There they remained until Jesus died and went there for them ‘Ephesians 4:8’ and lead the captivity captive taking them to heaven., they heard Jesus preach ‘1 Peter 3:19’ the Good News as He was the fulfillment of what they sought and as I said above Jesus then lead them to heaven. However their entrance into heaven was through nothing except the belief in Jesus. The unrighteous that died looking to make themselves acceptable to God remain in Hades on the Hot dry side where they will remain until the resurrection of the Dead, they will then be judged and cast into the Lake of Fire Rev 20:11-15. Now if you have a different idea perhaps you will provide scripture to support it. Without scripture is in nothing by opinion and everyone has one but all are not right. EdB |
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8 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128628 | ||
EdB, Well I sure do understand and appreciate where you are coming from now...because of your interpretation of Lk.16 and Eph.4 and 1 Pet.3 you must conclude that the OT people at some point had to learn and believe that Jesus died for them in order to make it into heaven. Where I am coming from is this: God offered Israel grace and truth in the OT. They were saved and forgiven just as we are today, IN LIGHT OF Jesus' death. Yes, Jesus is the REASON they were forgiven. (forgive me, I don't see any itallic options, so I will capitalize). However, they did not understand this fully. I have a difficult time believing that they OT people simply lived in misery and guilt their whole lives, always feeling that they were unrighteous and unforgiven because the messiah had not yet come to give them forgiveness. This is simply not true, as you know. chesed |
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9 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | JBG | 128634 | ||
Hey, Joel here, I just read all this, and it's great. Chesed, this is where sacrifice comes in. Obviously, before Christ came, sin existed. The only way to be reconciled with God was for a blood sacrifice to be made. This is what God established for the forgivness of sins. In the same way that Christians today ask forgivness for our sins through Christ, the perfect and final lamb, the Isrealites would bring sacrifices to the priests to present to God so that they may be forgiven. They could be made forgiven and live righteous before God if they, in faith, obeyed His commands. Therefore they no longer lived in misery and guilt. They lived forgiven and lived to obey the law that God established. And, if they lived with a belief in the law I believe that they lived with a faith in the coming Messiah because Jesus said that He came to fulfil the law. One thing, the problem with this sacrifice of lambs is that only the high priest could a direct relationship with God. Even though people could be forgiven and live righteous lives they could not come into the presence of God. And, God wanted to have relationship with all (more than just His people the Irealites as Peter descovers in Acts). So, God sends Christ and you know the rest. |
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