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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 81196 | ||
Greetings Emmaus! I'm still wondering where one finds all of these various 'kinds' of works mentioned in Eph. 2:8-9? :-) Paul doesn't say that we are not saved by 'some' works. He says that we are not saved 'by works' period. And, the phrase 'works of grace' is not found once in Scripture. Indeed, the only time that the two words 'grace' and 'work' appear in the save verse is in Rom. 11:6, where it is denied that 'grace' can include 'works'. "And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace." So, where is the justification for saying that Paul only meant 'some kinds of works' in Eph. 2:8-9, and where are 'works of grace' mentioned at all? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 81199 | ||
Tim, I think you have to look at the question that started this thread to get the context. He was asking what about the "works" that Jesus was talking about, which he quoted. The point is that they are not the same works of the law as what Paul was speaking. Look then at what I had to say about the decendents of Hagar and Sarah. Everyone works, but some are saved by grace and then and only then, after justification by grace, do they have merit bexcause they are works in Christ and so Christ can speak of rewards for those works. I personally don't see how you can explain it any other way without ignoring or completely twisting what Jesus has to say. I like to start with Jesus and conform what Paul and James have to say with what Jesus said, not the other way around. Emmaus |
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3 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | reilly1041 | 81202 | ||
Yes, Emmaus, getting back to the original question concerning what Jesus said. How do the by-faith-alone people align their thinking with what Jesus talked about. I can't find anywhere where Jesus Himself talked about faith alone getting one to the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus talked about the narrow gate - wouldn't the "faith-alone" gate be quite wide? (Just a note on myself, I was raised R. Catholic, started reading the Bible a year ago, love the concept of faith-alone, but I'm having trouble getting my arms around it. I don't mean my questions to be inflammatory, I'm just trying to get to the right questions to clear up my confusion! Thanks everybody!) |
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4 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 81206 | ||
It is tied into understanding the distinction between justification and sanctification. The classical Protestant understanding is that our sins are forgiven and Christ's perfect merit is put on our account, by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. That is justification. However, all those God justifies he also sanctifies. Sanctification is the work of grace in our hearts which bring us to obedience and make us more like Jesus Christ in practice. Justification is a one time event. Sanctification shows itself in our works and starts at the same time we believe (justification), but continues throughout the lives of those who truly are justified. So Jesus is addressing sanctification in many passages (although passages like John 3:16 and John 5:24 point out that faith is what justifies). Simply put, we are saved by faith, not works; but no evidential works likely means no faith. We can never earn our place in heaven, but God in his grace makes true believers more obedient to His law. True believers show their true faith in the way that Jesus describes. Incidentally, passages like 1 Corinthians 6:11 show that Paul also agrees that works follow faith. Certain people will not inherit the kingdom of God, and their works often show them to be false believers. --Joe! |
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5 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | reilly1041 | 81237 | ||
Thank you so much, I had been struggling w/the differences among these terms. I was a mechanical engineer and now am a stay-at-home mom. I don't know if I have lost brain cells during my at-home tenure, or if I am just more comfortable doing calculus, but these concepts are confusing to me. Thanks for helping, Stephanie |
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