Results 1 - 4 of 4
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What is the "Force of Faith"? | Bible general Archive 1 | gracefull | 82376 | ||
Hi Tim... The early morning is my free time so I came downstairs to discuss this with you this morning. However, I had not written down the ID# and sometime yesterday the thread was restricted so I had difficulty finding your post. I wll try to get a little in this morning, but it may be tomorrow before I can get indepth. You said: "So, the first question I would ask you to address is simply this: If faith is a power that produces a reality, why does Heb. 11:13 say that they did not receive?" I re read Hebres 11 and 12 yesterday on my commute home and a couple of things were highlighted in my thinking. 1. They did receive from their faith... a. Enoch was translated b. Noah was saved and his household He condemned the world and became heir of righteousness. c. Sarah recieved strength to conceive seed and Abraham was 'dead' yet he had the son of promise. (I would consider that a creative miracle) Now verse 13 can't be saying they did not 'receive' but rather that there is something specific they all did not receive while alive... verse 14-19 tells us what that promise was.They 'sought a country...a better country that is heavenly: this is why God is not ashamed to be called their God and has prepared for them a city. Verse 17 says that "by faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Issac: and he had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, (18) Of whom it was said, That in Issac shall thy seed be called: (19)Accounting that God was able to raise him up from the dead; from whence also he had received him in a figure. Verse 33..subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises... Verse 35..Women received their dead raised to life again Faith produces God's reality even after physical death. Verse 40 is the key...God having provided some better thing for, that they without us should not be made perfect(complete). The saints of old did receive many great miracles through faith in God's Words. To me, these scriptures do not state in any way that faith does not produce the reality God desires, but rather is necessary to produce His reality. Faith combined with God's promises produces God's will in the earth. Again substance according to Strong's: that which has foundation, is firm that which has actual existence a substance, real being the substantial quality, nature, of a person or thing the steadfastness of mind, firmness, courage, resolution confidence, firm trust, assurance In light of this I reaffirm what Strong's says of this word 'substance'. According to Strong's Hebrews 11:1 the Greek word is translated substance and means 'nature'. And above it is broken out as 'a substance, real being the substantial quality, nature, of a person or thing ' Faith is the substantial quality, naure of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen... Faith produces reality...faith in God's promises produces God's desires in the earth. Got to go, God bless |
||||||
2 | What is the "Force of Faith"? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 82385 | ||
Greetings Graceful! I notice that you left out the verses about those who were tortured, flogged, stoned, and sawn in two by faith! ;-) Here is my take on this chapter. I think that the WOF teachers miss out on the real meaning of the chapter because of their attempt to force a definition which does not fit. What do I mean? Of course, there were people who saw great miracles in their lives. But, this is the not focus of the chapter. The focus of the chapter is that they had faith in a promise which they never received. Because of that faith, they were obedient to God, trusted God, took chances for God, and never looked back. Yet, v. 13 and v. 39 tells us that they never received the promise in this life. Here is the difference I see between Biblical faith and WOF faith. Biblical faith is God centered. Biblical faith says I trust God no matter what the circumstances. Even if I must suffer for Him, I will do so because I know that He is faithful and I trust Him. This kind of faith lasts regardless of the circumstances. WOF faith is man centered. WOF faith seeks what man wants. WOF faith fails in the promise is not received. I have seen this firsthand in the lives of families who had bought into this particular teaching. But, because of the forced meaning, WOF teachers never seem to get the real meaning of Heb. 11. The context of Heb. 11 is not, 'How to get things from God'. Rather, the context is, 'How to live for God'. Look at the verses leading up to chapter 11. Heb. 10:38 - "But my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him.' 39 But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved." These were people who were commended for trusting God and living obediently for Him, even though they never received the promise in this life. Some had great victories, but many were put to death and suffered greatly. But, they all pressed on because, by faith, the promise was more real than reality. It is a subtle but profound difference. Now, the reason I disagree about faith producing reality is simple. Look at the tenses of the verbs in Heb. 11:1. 'Hoped for' and 'not seen' are both Present, Passive, Participles. The verse is not saying that we hope for something and then get it by faith. It is saying that those things that we are hoping for and not seeing are as real as if a contract has been signed. We haven't received them yet, nor do we see them, but we will receive the promise at some point. But, like those in Heb. 11, we may not receive it even in this life. Well, I have to go my friend! I look forward to hearing from you more. Let me encourage you to pray about this subtle difference. I believe that God answers prayer. I believe that God heals. I believe that God would do much more if we would ask Him to do so. But, I also know from both Scripture and experience that true faith is the faith that trusts God even when life doesn't go the way you want. :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||
3 | What is the "Force of Faith"? | Bible general Archive 1 | Earnest | 82456 | ||
Tim, You are RIGHT about the subtle difference! And yes, you are hitting on the very problem why so many fall... when things don't go "their" way. I still do not believe that WOF teachers teach this. There is much to the gospel... and a well-balanced diet is necessary. However, once the foundations are laid why not press in to greater experiences. There's no set formula, and most of the WOF teachers have experienced the so-called "negatives" that God uses to build a vessel of honour. They just do not preach (long) about it. Occasionally they will mention briefly some hard lesson. That's probably the difficulty. However, I would add that God Himself never tells us the hard stuff. i.e. what I mean is that the prophetic is for edification, and what usually brings comfort is the knowledge that things will improve. If we have not hope we are miserable, AND if we hope ONLY in this life we are of all men MOST miserable. So whether your results ARE HERE AND NOW or in the SWEET BY AND BY... we are all living in HOPE! I personally believe that Faith in GOD and bringing His Kingdom in the earth is for NOW! If I fail I won't fall! If I don't SUCCEED... it won't be because I did not TRY! Better to try and fail, than not try and succeed! :-) |
||||||
4 | What is the "Force of Faith"? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 82460 | ||
Greetings Earnest! That is definitely one thing we agree on my friend! We serve a God who is able to keep that which which we have committed unto Him. With Him, we will persevere. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||