Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Pretribulation or slightly after ? | Bible general Archive 1 | Scribe | 42598 | ||
CONTINUED If we understand that the DAY of THE WRATH of Him that sits upon the Throne and of the LAMB is being poured out upon unrepentant man , then we know that we are kept from it. So for clarity when discussing the Day of Judgement I will call it the Great Day of God's Wrath instead of Tribualtion so that you do not mix up what I am saying with the type of testing and adversity we all face and some more than others. After you examine the doctrine of the Judgement of the Lord upon man prior to the New Heavens and Earth and after you master the doctrine of a bodily resurrection then it is time to examine the passages about a church that is changed and glorified and rises to meet the Lord (rapture). This rumor that the pre-trib view started in the 19th century is not accurate. I have numerous books in my library that reference the doctrine of a generation of saints that are changed in a moment and rise and meet the Lord and then afterwards an ongoing time of judgement upon those that remain that date back to the middle ages. I have a book that is one of the best and most scholarly expositions on Revelation by a man named James A. Siess titled "The Apocalypse" that was written in the 18th century (late 1700s) and he even used the word rapture. Siess cites numerous rescources in his book of ancient writers that held similar views based on the same verses we use today to explain the rapture. No Granted there is one major difference. The idea of disappearing from view. I am not sure why anyone would have thought that a necessary explanation. There was never any indication of Elijah dissapearing, he was seen to go up. I mean he disappeared when he go too high. As with Jesus, he was seen to ascend up into a cloud. The mount of transfiguration glory is promised to all the saints that are ready at his appearing and so when I read this event in 1 Cor 15 and the passaged in 2 Thess I thought of other scripture references and my first thought was that of being glorifed and shining like the sun and then rising and wicked sinners that once persecuted the holy saints looking on in awe. The passage says we are CHANGED in a twinkling of an eye not that we dissapear. And the passage is quite detailed about the change. Our mortal bodies are changed into immortal glorifed ones. This promise is to be held dear. When it happens is in question. The event is not in question. The type of change .. bodily glorification .. is not in question. May God Bless you in your Study of His Word. |
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2 | Pretribulation or slightly after ? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 42893 | ||
"This rumor that the pre-trib view started in the 19th century is not accurate. I have numerous books in my library that reference the doctrine of a generation of saints that are changed in a moment and rise and meet the Lord and then afterwards an ongoing time of judgement upon those that remain that date back to the middle ages. I have a book that is one of the best and most scholarly expositions on Revelation by a man named James A. Siess titled "The Apocalypse" that was written in the 18th century (late 1700s) and he even used the word rapture. Siess cites numerous rescources in his book of ancient writers that held similar views based on the same verses we use today to explain the rapture." Joseph Augustus Seiss (1823-1904) is the author of _The Apocalypse: Exposition of the Book of Revelation_. The book was first published in 1865. Look at the years of his life. This is most definitely a 19th-century, post-Darby work. --Joe! |
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3 | Pretribulation or slightly after ? | Bible general Archive 1 | Scribe | 42972 | ||
Thanks John, I stand corrected. However Seiss cites his sources and other writers throughout the book and many of these date back centuries before. I do not have the book with me, But I remember highlighting the sources so that I could bring it up when I hear these comments that make it sound like saints did not expect a catching away prior to a tribulation before the 19th century. They may not have called it by the name "rapture" but they expected the event to occur. I will have to get the book and qoute the sources when I get a chance. I do not read of any saying we dissapear though. The idea of disappearing seems to be a recent doctrine. The idea of glorification is what I see in the ancients, and what I get in reading the Bible. I am not dogmatic about certain eschatoligical views that are not made clear to man. The approach to understanding it, or that which I have faith for, is that of basing these mysteries first of all on the Prophets of the OT. I am convinced that all the NT has it's foundation on the OT prophets. So if there is a mystery that Paul had about a generation of living saints being glorified without dying then it must bee hinted at somewhere in the OT though it certainly could be hidden until Jesus came and the Holy Spirit was poured out and men like Paul were called to reveal it. So if I search the OT first on all things related to the bodily resurrection I do seem to see different events. Some that explain a resurrection of only the righteous and some that mention both the wicked and the righteous. One of the passages that I think is foundational is Isaiah 26:19-21 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. If I compare this to what Paul spoke about in 1 cor 15 I begin to get a revelation of the same mystery that Paul had. There is such an event awaiting the saints and according to Is 26 there will be a time of judgement while these saints are hidden. If we were to collect all the verses on this topic we can see why there is strong evidence for a pre-trib rapture. Though it does not really matter to me. My central focus is to live as though the Lord will come today and to be able to say I have run a good race. I believe one should live as though this was their last day on earth. This is a challenge, that requires great faith. I will admit I often have to get on my face before God and repent that I am cold and in need of being made hot again. May God Bless you in your study of His Word. |
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4 | Pretribulation or slightly after ? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 43006 | ||
Scribe: Please do get the book when you can and cite those sources. I have never heard of any theologians prior to Darby's Dispensationalist explosion that have embraced a pre-tribulational rapture. --Joe! |
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