Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Where was satan when he first sinned? | Bible general Archive 1 | Scribe | 41365 | ||
I am open. I have not concluded anything yet. But if in all instances where Mount of God occurs in the Bible it refers to the one in Jerusalem, then why would be a different Mount in Ezek 28 and if one decides that it is a different one what right or basis does he have to conclude this? In Ezek 20 Ezek referred to the mount and said... Ezekiel 20:40 0 For in mine holy mountain, in the mountain of the height of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, there shall all the house of Israel, all of them in the land, serve me: there will I accept them, and there will I require your offerings, and the firstfruits of your oblations, with all your holy things ... so if the same Ezek later says Ezekiel 28:14 4 Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. .. Would not this same prophet be still referring to the same mount he has mentioned in a previous prophesy. What right or basis would one have for calling this Eden a different Eden than the Garden of Eden where we all saw that satan was indeed in in Gen 3. So we know that satan was in THAT Garden of Eden, we have no knowledge of any other Garden of Eden. But let us consider the stones of Fire for clarity. One concept I utterly reject is that such descriptions are ever placed in the Holy Word of God for emotional emphasis or poetic language. I believe there is always a power truth and revelation and in this instance a literal application behind such descriptive words as stones of fire. I used to listen to other preachers repeat other preachers about satan falling ages before the garden. I want to see the verse now. I only have this one about when he was perfect and then he was found with iniquity. It distinctly says he was perfect while still in Eden and then he was found with iniquity. When he shows up in Gen speaking to Eve, we know he has iniquity. We never see him in Gen in his perfect state. So unless you can demonstrate how in other parts of the Bible the Heavenlies are called Eden then I only have a right to assume that Eden is the Garden of Eden and no other Eden since I know of no other Eden. Making up things about "we can call heaven Eden if we want to" is Bambi theology and I cannot have anything to do with it because I can only put faith in the Word of God and not in any "made up" explanations. Until I see a passage where a prophet calles heaven Eden and it does not refer to the Garden Adam was in then I cannot say Ezek meant anything but Eden the garden Adam was in. But back to the stones of fire? If I just say that "stones of fire" is just phrases to inspire awe then I am not any closer to an answer to "what is the mount of God here?" And "which Eden does he refer to?" But if the stones of fire have meaning and can be identified then maybe that will bring me closer to a revelation that God would want me to be seeking out, (since He did see fit to put the words in the Bible for our instruction in righteousness). Consider these verses Ezekiel 28:14 4 Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Ezekiel 28:16 6 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Now look at Job 28 5 [As for] the earth, out of it cometh bread: and under it is turned up as it were fire. 6 The stones of it [are] the place of sapphires: and it hath dust of gold. 7 [There is] a path which no fowl knoweth, and which the vulture's eye hath not seen: |
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2 | Where was satan when he first sinned? | Bible general Archive 1 | benjamite | 41383 | ||
As I said before, I see the "Garden of God" as a euphemism, or another name, for Eden. "But if in all instances where Mount of God occurs in the Bible it refers to the one in Jerusalem, then why would be a different Mount in Ezek 28 and if one decides that it is a different one what right or basis does he have to conclude this?" Aren't you doing just that by equating it with Eden (and not Jerusalem)? In truth, there were a number of mountains called "the mountain of God", not just one. Ex. 3:1, Horeb Ex. 4:27, I assume the same (Horeb) Ex. 18:5, Sinai (might Sinai be the same as Horeb?) Ex. 24:13, Sinai Ps. 68:15, "the mountain of Bashan" 1 Kings 19:8, Horeb Daniel 9:20, I conceed is probably Jerusalem, one of the many "mountains of God". These must be considered as well. Note that in 1 Kings, Jerusalem was already in existence. See also Galatians 4:25 for the location of Sinai - Arabia, not in Israel. With this as evidence, why do you fault me for saying, "I see the mountain of God as being distinct and separate from the garden of God - the former being a euphemism for 'Heaven' the latter for 'Eden."? As to equating Jerusalem with Eden, there were Cherubim to guard the way back into Eden. There was a world-wide flood to destroy any remaining evidence of Eden (Gen 6-9). Jerusalem is not the same as Eden. Since Ezekiel uses figurative language for the description of Satan, why must the rest of it be absolutely literal? Remember, Satan is a spirit being (Eph 6:11-12). Again, I do see the Garden of God as being Eden. I don't see the mountain of God, in this instance, as being Jerusalem (and there is much Biblical precedence for it not having to be Jerusalem). I see it as being Heaven - the only other location we knew about during the days before the fall. Remember Ezekiel 28:16 says he was cast from the mountain of God, it does not say "garden of God". The text allows for this to be a separate event from the deception and curse in Genesis 3. |
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3 | Where was satan when he first sinned? | Bible general Archive 1 | Scribe | 41385 | ||
You may have misunderstood my words. I am dealing with three thoughts now. 1) Eden 2)Mount of God 3)Stones of Fire What is Eden? We know about the Garden. What other Eden is there in scripture. What is the mount of God. As you listed they all refer to the same mount which today is where the Islamic mosque is and is also where the Jews want to build their temple (there is a tradition among the Jews that on this mount is the foundation stone where God made Adam) 3)What is the stones of fire? |
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4 | Where was satan when he first sinned? | Bible general Archive 1 | benjamite | 41399 | ||
Okay, let's deal with these three thoughts. 1. There is no other Eden (as far as location is concerned). Eden was, however a person's name (2 Kings 19:12; 2 Chron 29:12; 31:15; et. al.) 2. They DO NOT all refer to the same mountain. (Let there be no misunderstanding.) That was my point. Sinai (or Horeb), the Mountain of God, is in Arabia NOT ISRAEL. The Jews want to build their temple in ISRAEL (not on Sinai). Don't tell me that there is only one Mountain of God, to do so is to directly contradict the Word of God. Please see the references, in my previous post, to a) Sinai or Horeb, b) The mountain of Bashan, and c) Jerusalem. Jewish tradition not supported in Scripture is tradition and not the Word of God. Please don't equate the two. 3. "stones of fire" are mentioned only twice in Scripture Ezek 28:14 and Ezek 28:16 (not in Job 28:5-6). Apparently we'll find out what they are when we get to the Mountain of God (Heaven). To say that there is fire under the earth is apparently a reference to volcanoes. (Job 28:5). |
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