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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Does God speak to us in dreams today? | Rev 22:18 | DocTrinsograce | 158811 | ||
Dear Brother Mark, Yes, I understood that you did. I was explaining that particular form of eisegesis. The question was not resolved, nor was it very directly addressed -- although the argument is not an uncommon one for those who assume the existence of extra-biblical revelation. Even if the conclusion is correct, that doesn't make the means at which it was arrived sound hermeneutics. Probably we should take some time to define our terms. Not sure, exactly, why this is such an issue with folks. Makes me mindful of arguing the relative merits of a broken unicycle when a brand-new, fully-loaded Jaguar is at hand! :-) Sorry, have to run to class. Hopefully I'll have more time to respond tomorrow. In Him, Doc |
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2 | Does God speak to us in dreams today? | Rev 22:18 | mark d seyler | 158815 | ||
Hi Doc, I am sorry, but again I have to disagree with your characturizations. To my mind, I am not "assuming" extra-Biblical revelation. :-( This is what the Bible teaches me. I have presented a textually based foundation for why I believe that. I have not seen a textually based refutation showing me where I am wrong, simply the assertion that I am wrong. I have not seen a textually based exposition of what the Bible actually teaches, were it to teach something different. Is there then no voice of God, heard anywhere, by anyone, by any means, but what is from the printed page of the Bible? Paul, in 1 Cor 14, gave us rules on how to go about sharing what the Lord had given to us by prophecy, His direct revelation to individuals. Would not Paul have simply said, "If you think God is speaking to you, shut up, because He's not. You're not an apostle, your words are not the Bible, so forget it." Is this actually a discussion of cessationism? These are just some more of my thoughts. We needn't neccissarily continue this, as I think of it from a cessationinst point of view, both camps are widely represented in the archives. Love in Christ, Mark |
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3 | Does God speak to us in dreams today? | Rev 22:18 | DocTrinsograce | 158835 | ||
Mark, Patience, dear brother. :-) Give me a little time, I'll show how the argument offered was eisegetical. As I said before, even if the conclusion is correct, that alone is not sufficient to justify the mishandling of Scripture. There are many forms of cessationism. The word shouldn't disturb you. We might examine the various viewpoints, including the position on the the other side that holds to extra-biblical revelation. However, we need to be careful not to muddy the waters. Breathe deep, Mark... remember, we deliberate carefully and calmly, being sure we can properly articulate the other person's argument. Then we weight the evidence and decide for ourselves. That isn't a threatening thing. It is a blessed thing! It is a loving thing! Even if we walk away with differing conclusions. We'll have all of eternity where our opinions will be in perfect synchronization! :-) In HIm, Doc |
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4 | Does God speak to us in dreams today? | Rev 22:18 | mark d seyler | 158868 | ||
Hi Doc, I appreciate your concern for my emotional state - please allow me to assure you that it is not in jeopardy! :-) I believe that I know you well enough from our many discourses that you, as do I, do not allow differences of opinion to stand between our fellowship. :-) I do not have a difficuly with the concept of cessationism. As we are discussing whether or not God speaks to man in ways other than through the pages of scripture, cessationism as it applies to spiritual gifts, and to the fulfillment of Joel's prophecy, has a direct bearing. If you are a "cessationist", this simply describes the conclusions you have reached. I obviously am not a "cessationist", as I believe that God works through the spiritual gifts, as well as prophecy, dreams, and visions. There is more scripture I could present, but as I said, this topic has been thoroughly discussed on this forum previously. I understand you to be approaching this from a "cessationist" stance because of the fact that the only scripture you have referenced in answering this question, does God still speak to us in dreams, is Revelation 22:18 "I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;" You have presented this response saying that if God were to speak to us today, we would have to collect all of His communications, and add them to the Bible. I do not believe that any of the contributors to this thread have any intent to add to the book of the Revelation, or to any other parts of the Bible. Using commonly accepted translations, quoting verbatim, and examining entire passages in context, comparing several passages that directly relate to the matter, casting aside all preconceptions, I have let the scripture speak for itself. This has led me to conclusions that are commonly held by believers today, and that are widely supported in commentaries from yesterday and today. Many churches teach as I believe, and many teach as you believe. I am happy to let this rest here. Love in Christ, Mark |
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5 | Does God speak to us in dreams today? | Rev 22:18 | SerrasNewRoad | 158875 | ||
Mark, I am also happy to let this rest as you have written it. This is likely my last post. I have been nourished both by the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (which I recommend highly for teaching) and Calvary Chapel (where I took the baptism of the Holy Spirit), and some on fire pentacostals. And, quite frankly, where would I be without all I gained from the Catholic Church and the very first church I joined, which was Presbyterian, not to mention the first church I received Communion at, and where my Second Sunday of Advent 1990 born again experience ties to - the Episcopal Church. Christian fellowship tends to go denominational, even online, however, it is wonderful when we can cross boundaries and witness to one another, as did the early church of the New Testament, where Christians were to come together, educate and build up one another, encourage one another, as Paul writes, in orderly manner, one with a teaching, one with a prophecy, etc. We must, absolutely, test the spirits. There is good guidance for that in the New Testament, and I personally like to test with the Nicene Crede. I always belonged to Jesus, however since I embraced Him the 2nd Sunday of Advent, 1990, I have experienced physical healing from cortisone addicted athsma, deliverance from alcohol, and God does speak to me by dreams. All this is by the power of His Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit which proceeds from the Father and the Son, and which bears witness of all that the Son speaks, and the Son can speak nothing except as given to Him by the Father. "Hear O Isreal, the Lord our God, the Lord is One". His gifts are given to edify the Church. Sound teaching, a sober mind, and wisdom are also gifts. It is not my intention in this note to cause further debate (and I am aware this note may "disappear"). Just to encourage you in your faith, and even to encourage those who might read this who are concerned with your "emotional state". Praise God that we have emotional states. It identifies us as human. One of the fruits of the Spirit is Joy. This is something that I experienced after the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. It stays with me. I thought I would share the meaning of my screen name. On the 5 Freeway, going to San Juan Capistrano, is Father Junipero Serras Road. For those who read this posting, if you occasion Orange County, California, travel Father Serras Road, and make the necessary turns, to go to Father Serras Chapel, which is an historical site. There is a new, very beautiful basilica there, as well. All of this amidst, by south Orange County standards, poverty. Walk the entire site and look into the faces of the people who walk by. To me, Father Serras New Road, is everywhere we see among us today, the poor, destitute, miserable, unreached. These are the people Father Serra came to convert to Christianity. This is where Christ sends us today. They can be among us in the church (calling themselves Christians), as well as those clearly outside us as we pass by on the road of life. Perhaps the greatest of all of Father Serras New Roads, are those we can pave in the 10/40 window. I am very much interested in missionary outreach to this area, and taking the gospel to the poor and the unreached in these last days. May all who read this posting, travel Jesus' road well to eternal life, and along the way, gather together flocks to bring along with you. Perhaps you will find them along one of Father Serras New Roads. Blessings, peace, and joy to you all in Christ Jesus. Amen. |
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