Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Answering Baptismal Regenerationalist | 1 Pet 3:21 | Rowdy | 113679 | ||
I'm sorry but I must differ with you on this subject. We are certainly not saved by faith alone. James makes this very clear in Chapter 2. One must read the whole Bible, "rightly dividing God's Word." Tell me...based on your statement, "by faith alone that we are saved," you seem to leave out other important steps of salvation such as repentance and confession. Are you actually trying to say that or did you leave them out by oversight? Anyway, I'd have to disagree with you regardless of your answer. We MUST see ourselves as in need of obeying ALL of God's commands so as to qualify for the Holy Spirit's gift of salvation. I keep on saying these kind of statements but no one can show me in God's Word where a person is actually saved or is actually pronounced a christian after showing his faith only. I've issued this challenge once before and would like to reiterate it to you: Can you cite a single verse in the Bible where it specifically says the words "faith only" or where a person is described saved or is pronounced a christian after showing his "faith only" without baptism or any other act of obedience to God? I've mentioned this comparison before. When does a couple get to enjoy the full legal status of marriage? AFTER the ceremony is performed or the documents are signed and processed by the court appointed official of the respective state in which the marriage takes place. As we all know, there is some small variances from state to state. My point is: the legal recognition of that marriage is very important in a court of law. If one partner of that couple dies before that legal point of marriage is consemated, there is no marriage, no transferance of property, no other benefits derived from the marriage attempted. In our world of sinful short sightedness, we recognize the importance of such relationships and the point of time of that legal recognition. Don't you think it's going to matter to the God of our universe when we "put on Christ?" When we recognize the tremendous cost and give up total control of our lives to our God, all people agree this is a major watershed in one's life. Every christian I know remembers vividly when and where they were baptized. They remember the circumstances or at least most of them. It's the point in your life when you know you've obeyed every one of God's commands and can approach God both in prayer and on Judgment Day with every confidence that you've complied with His Son's whole Last Will and Testament. Before that point, everything is academic and worthy of discussion. When someone hesitates or puts a significant amount of time before being baptized, they are taking a chance they might not live another minute or maybe even face the Lord's second coming. Now, you're going to say "What about the thief on the cross?" or "What about the person that dies of a heart attack just before being baptized?" Those kind of questions are basically left up for God. We can speculate and we can discuss those issues as long as you like but the bottom line is, we don't have an authoritative answer. This I know, we must obey God to be found pleasing in His sight. I'm still interested in your response, especially to the challenge. I pray God blesses you in your study. |
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2 | What commands must we obey 2B saved? | 1 Pet 3:21 | Searcher56 | 113687 | ||
You said ... We MUST see ourselves as in need of obeying ALL of God's commands so as to qualify for the Holy Spirit's gift of salvation. With Scripture ... What are God's commands must be obeyed to be saved? ... What commands are to be followed after? |
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3 | What commands must we obey 2B saved? | 1 Pet 3:21 | Rowdy | 113740 | ||
This post is for both Searcher and CDBJ. I agree with both of you; this IS NOT an easy subject but I'll try to deal with all the points of your posts. First of all, let's agree to subdivide God's commands in the NT to His children, those who want to be with God at Judgment Day, into 2 groups. The first group would be those 5 steps of salvation I've posted once before but I'll repeat them here: 1) Hear/understand the Gospel of Christ, 2) Believe that Jesus is the Son of God, IAW that Gospel, 3) Repent of one's sins and resolve to turn away from that life of sin as much as possible, 4) Confess that belief in Christ as God's Son publically, and 5) Be baptized for the remission of one's sins in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. One should also consider the cost of this committment, which includes a total living sacrifice and a resolution to immitate Jesus and His official representatives (the Apostles) in the example they set as well as the directives they gave, found throughout the NT. Now onto the second group of commands from God's Word, those coming AFTER becoming a christian and being added to the Lord's church. We could spend the rest of lives discussing this subject and fill up hundreds of books like we're seeing on the bookshelves in our stores. Basically, in summary those commands are all the other directives or imperatives as provided in the NT, i.e. sing, adding the fruits of the Spirit and maintaining our armor of God so as to avoid the temptations of the Devil. Now you're probably saying about now, "It's literally impossible for one human being to do all of that." And to that I say an hearty AMEN and thank God for it. That's where grace comes in. We must be in a constant state of introspection, soul-searching, re-evaluating and maturing in our life of immitating Christ. We should feel free to confide in our soul-mate and open up our hearts to that person, expressing our fears, our short comings and solicit their prayers and support. Of course, we must do the same for them. Don't misunderstand, this is not an option as far as our Lord is concerned. Just as John explains in his 1st letter, we must see ourselves in the fellowship with God, while striving to maintain that fellowship with all of God's family. This constant vigilence keeps the blood of Christ active in our spiritual lives and constantly cleansing our soul of those few sins accorded to us on a daily basis. But we MUST also see ourselves as drawing closer and closer to our God and He'll do His part and draw us closer to Him. Sure there's going to much in the life of a christian left undone and ocassionally the best, most mature christian will commit a sin but that's also where God's grace bridges the gap. Now on the subject of Cornelius, his family and their being saved: this too is a tough subject. I've got to say it seems to me it's fairly obvious that Cornelius was saved in much the same manner as the Apostles. Don't you know that the Apostles were all baptized AFTER receiving the Empowerment of the Holy Ghost on that sacred 1st day of the church? I'd like to think they even had fun baptizing each other. Another interesting question: who was the first Apostle to be baptized? Let's pose your question from the other perspective. Let's suppose that Cornelius or any one member of his family (excluding the small children since they couldn't repent and believe) refused to be baptized. This person after receiving Empowerment from the Holy Ghost and THEN refuses to obey God's requirement to become a family member. What do you think? I've got to conclude he probably wouldn't have kept the Holy Spirit within him much longer. It would have left him just like it left King Saul in the OT, just like the Holy Spirit leaves a christian (in today's world) when he continues to sin willfully and doesn't repent. He gives up that redemptive power and all the benefits that go with it. I guess you can figure my answer to your question BUT the most important thing is IT'S GOD'S DECISION. I hope this long post is read by all on the Forum and God bless you all. |
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4 | Acts 10:47? | 1 Pet 3:21 | Morant61 | 113753 | ||
Greetings Rowdy! You wrote: "Now on the subject of Cornelius, his family and their being saved: this too is a tough subject. I've got to say it seems to me it's fairly obvious that Cornelius was saved in much the same manner as the Apostles. Don't you know that the Apostles were all baptized AFTER receiving the Empowerment of the Holy Ghost on that sacred 1st day of the church?" Where is Scripture does it say that these two groups were to be saved in a different manner than the rest of mankind? If baptism is essential for salvation, then how could they be saved without it? Yet, we have to be baptized to be saved? In my view, Acts 10:47 is the fatal blow to the baptismal regeneration position and demonstrates conclusively that Acts 2:38 has been misinterpreted my friend. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | Acts 10:47? | 1 Pet 3:21 | Rowdy | 113758 | ||
I can only respond with the facts as they are presented in God's Word. Numerous examples in the scriptures point out the urgent need of baptism as in the Ethiopian eunuch and the Phillipian jailer. It seems in almost all the examples I know about that baptism was an essential step in this process, thus the urgency. Also, it doesn't say in Acts 10:47 the Apostles or Cornelius was saved without baptism. If he were, it seems he would have waited on being baptized until there were more witnesses. This was a major event if you remember, the first time a christian jew converted a gentile to christianity. Remember Peter had to be convinced with a dream to do this and he told the story again to his fellow christian jews in Jerusalem because of this radical departure from the previous regime of Godliness for everyone. With all of that importance to this change and the lack of importance of baptism in the scenario you describe, why wouldn't Peter have wanted many more witnesses? No, my friend, I'm afraid I'll stick to my conclusion that baptism is essential for our salvation. I'd also be interested in your response to all the other points in both of my posts to you. Do continue studying and praying on this subject with an open mind. God bless you. |
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6 | What do you do with Acts 8:16? | 1 Pet 3:21 | Searcher56 | 113801 | ||
How can you ignore Scripture ... Cornelius and comapny were saved before they were baptized. What do you do with Acts 8:16? | ||||||
7 | What do you do with Acts 8:16? | 1 Pet 3:21 | Searcher56 | 113840 | ||
Withdrawing questions for peace | ||||||
8 | What do you do with Acts 8:16? | 1 Pet 3:21 | Rowdy | 118646 | ||
First of all, I must apologize for not responding earlier so as to prevent your withdrawal. As long as a person is quoting and asking a question from the Bible directly to me, I'm ALWAYS willing to at least discuss it, especially if the verse is from the NT. Inserted for reference: Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit. You emphasize verse 16 and I'm inferring you are emphasizing the word "simply." From that assumption, I can only conclude you might be thinking this means that being "baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus" does not mean that these folks were saved. Maybe in today's world without the miraculous measure of the Holy Spirit evident all everyone christians went in the first century this use of the word simply might mean such a thing. BUT I think there was so much emphasis and attraction to miracles and the ability to perform them (just as we see in the verses following 17) that some christiains felt "left out" and not fully in receipt of God's portion of christianity He was pouring out on the whole world AT THAT TIME. This is the main reason so much of Paul's writing to the Corinthians was devoted to the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit. Most christians ended up misusing them or at the very least misunderstanding their main purpose, thus their ending is forecasted in 1 Cor 13. If a person analyzes the logic in this thread with emphasis on the statement as you've made, I'm afraid almost anyone would see the error in your conclusion. I see your point but it's merely just ONE WAY to interpret verse 16 and since the bulk of the NT clearly portrays baptism as prerequisite to salvation, I'll have to stick to the Bible's emphasis on all the 5 steps of salvation as cited earlier. IF I've drawn the wrong conclusion from your post, please correct me and I'll try again. Thanks and God bless. --Rowdy |
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9 | What do you do with Acts 8:16? | 1 Pet 3:21 | Rowdy | 118761 | ||
I thought of another illustration that might make this even more clear. Have you ever been through a special canvasing of a community with flyers with coupons to a local business? And then follow up that campaign with another one in a neighboring community but with a few minor differences, maybe an expiration date on each of the coupon sheets? Or some other differnce? Maybe one is better than the other, with larger discounts? That's the scenario I would paint for you to help you understand the first century world of christians. Now remember, we're dealing with first century christians who were just getting acquainted with God and Godliness as in the case of Corinth. So, in some cities, word of this miraculous measure of power from the Holy Spirit was being spread around the known world, originating in Jerusalem. As you can imagine the cities (congregations of christians) who didn't have these miraculous powers would want those powers and want them very badly, maybe even lust for these abilities. Now maybe you can imagine just how bad things were in the first century and no wonder that our Lord DOESN'T see fit to have this miraculous age to go on with human beings in control. Once again, our Lord wants us to graduate from this kind of simple and shallow spiritual depth in our walk with God. He wants us to grow and mature and get out of this kind of addiction for the physical world and learn to prefer His world of the spiritual, the infinite over the finite. I hope this analogy helps all those who might read this thread. God bless. --Rowdy |
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