Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What is the extent of Rom. 5:18? | 1 Pet 3:20 | Morant61 | 6474 | ||
Greetings Joe! Let me begin by stating how much I enjoy reading your postings. I haven't read all of the threads on this subject, but I would like to get involved. There is so much involved in this debate, but it seems that most people are focusing on the extent of the atonement. So, that is where I will begin. Please consider Romans 5:17-20. Here we have a text that deals exlicitly with both the extent and the efficacy of the atonement. Romans 5:18 makes a direct comparison between the act of Adam (the fall) and the act of Christ (the Cross). In both cases, the extent is universal. Adam's sin bring condemnation on all. Christ's death brings life for all men. Now immediately we ask ourselves, if this is the case then everyone would be saved, right? Not according to the text. Romans 5:17 again makes a comparison between Adam and Christ. Only this time the issue is efficacy, not extent. According to Romans 5:17, death reigned through Adam's sin. However, the gift of righteousness only reigns in those who receive God's grace. Based on this passage, and many others, my understanding of the extent and efficacy of the atonement is as follows: 1) Concerning the extent of the atonement, Christ died for all men. 1 John 2:2 says, "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." There is no way to limit the extent of this verse. He atoned for our (Christians) sins, and for the sins of the world (non-Christians). The passages you list do not rule out an unlimited atonement in terms of extent (in my opinion.) I don't want to blow them off, so if there is any particular point you want to discuss, I would be more than happy to dialogue with you. 2) Concerning the efficacy of the atonement, only those who receive God's grace are included in it's benefit. The "whosoever will's" are the only ones who receive the benefit of the atonement. Like you, I have studied this topic a lot over the years. I am conviced that in many ways, both sides of the debate are saying the same thing, only with a few different presuppsitons. The end result is the same under both scemes of thought, only some (the elect or those who respond) are saved. Have you ever read anything by Robert Shank? I would be curious to see what you think about his argument. He covers his thoughts in two full books, so I can't deal with all of it, but a good summary is that election is corporate, not individual. When someone responds to God's grace, he becomes a part of the elect body, the Church. He or she, then becomes a participant in all of the blessings are promises made to the elect. I'd better go, I don't want to post too long of a message. Keep up the good posts! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | What is the extent of Rom. 5:18? | 1 Pet 3:20 | jim | 6484 | ||
To me Jesus died for all living humans on earth . We hear or read God's message of redemption and we decide if we join the Body of Christ and become part of the bride. we must make the choice. Today is the day of salvation. Christ died that all might be saved Jim | ||||||
3 | What is the extent of Rom. 5:18? | 1 Pet 3:20 | kalos | 6486 | ||
Flippancy dealing with Scripture. This verse means to me.... "Avoid superficial interpretation...avoid superficial interpretation. One of the common problems in interpreting the Bible is this little phrase, "This verse means to me...." so forth and so forth and so forth. Let me tell you something. It doesn't matter what it means to you, the question is what would it mean if you didn't live? What would it mean if you didn't exist? What does it mean period is the issue, not what does it mean to you. "Sometimes you'll hear people get together and supposedly have a Bible study which is little more than a pooling of ignorance. People say, "Well, I look at this verse and I feel this verse is saying..." It doesn't matter what you feel. That has nothing to do with it. It's not a matter of how you feel about the verse, it's not a matter of what you think it means to you. Avoid adlibbing in Bible interpretation. Avoid free wheeling in Bible interpretation. Haphazard handling of God's Word. "We all want to acknowledge the priesthood of the believer...yes, we all want to acknowledge that we have anointing from God, the Spirit of God who dwells within us and the Spirit of God who dwells within us is the teacher who teaches us. We all want to acknowledge that. But that is not justification for flippancy dealing with Scripture. That's why in 1 Timothy 5:17 it says, "The elders who work hard in the Scripture are worthy of double honor." It is hard work. Avoid superficial interpretation. Avoid "this means to me." That is not a statement that should preface any interpretation of Scripture. The question is, what does it mean if you don't exist? What did it mean before you were born? And what will mean it after you're dead? What does it mean to people who will never meet you? What does it mean period, is the issue." (John MacArthur at www.gty.org/Broadcast/transcripts/90-157.htm) |
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4 | What is the extent of Rom. 5:18? | 1 Pet 3:20 | jim | 6491 | ||
JVH what is flippancy? It really dosen't matter if i was never born or already dead or never been born because the Word of God is true if we never read it or obey it. God made a way for each one to be savedand if we fail to know today whose fault will that be? I will from this time forward to give you verse for each time i write something. One thing i know is im had better beleive and be ready to give anyone the way to get to Go. How did J Macarthur get so much knowledge? This I know and will proclaim each time is to follow Apostles Doctrine until i meet Jesus. We must meet sometime and talk face to face. Jim | ||||||