Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What is interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6 | Heb 6:9 | fundamentals | 220813 | ||
Hebrews 6:4-6 has always been a problem text for a lot of people - myself included. There are two aspects that I ponder. The first is in relation to the concept that "it is impossible.....to renew them again to repentance" if they "fall away". I seek comments and opinions as to whether this means that those who renounce Christ or turn their backs on Him once they have been saved - can never again come to the cross in repentance. The second aspect is that if we sin, we "crucify again for themselves (ourselves) the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame". Does this mean that each time we sin Jesus must be re-crucified in order for us to come back to him? What degree of sin must we commit in order to make Christ suffer his death again each time we fall? Or is this simply a reminder that our sin hurts God deeply? I realize that this is one of the sore points between the Arminian and Calvinist views of salvation and it is a difficult passage, however I am currently in a Bible discussion group that is pondering this passage right now and I would appreciate any thoughts that anyone (Arminian or Calvinist) has on the passage. God Bless. |
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2 | What is interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6 | Heb 6:9 | lightedsteps | 220819 | ||
Hi fundamentals I recently made a rather lengthy post to this exact question. Go to the upper right hand corner of this page, and enter the number 219874 in the search box. My personal view on these verses are that we as believers cannot renounce Christ. On the ground these verses say, (first) "it is impossible", for that eventuality to take place, and (second) there is the "IF" which does not mean "When", but that if it were possible for them to fall away. The "IF" mentioned, goes with the "It is impossible", not apart from it. Hoping this has the answers you are seeking. Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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3 | What is interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6 | Heb 6:9 | Beja | 220821 | ||
Fundamentals, I've debated this question more than once on this site, so when you asked I was rather determined not to get involved in the conversation once more. However, the answer given by lightedsteps very much should be addressed. To put it simply, what he has told you about the "IF" in the sentence is wrong. His interpretation is literally impossible due to the way it is written in the original greek. Verse 6 says, "Kai parapesontas, palin anakeinidzein" Feel free to take my word for it, but anybody who does not take my word for it let me break this phrase down for you. Kai (and, even, also) This word simply connects this section to what has come before. 'Palin anakeinidzein" means to renew again. It goes on to say "to repentence" but I didn't want to reproduce the entire verse in Greek. Now here is the point. There is one word left, "parapesontas." This is a participle of the verb which means "to fall away." Notice this, there is no IF or WHEN in the text at all. In fact, this is true of all verses 4-6, there is no word in this entire text for IF or WHEN. The word IF isn't even in the text! Either of those words ONLY comes into the text as you try to translate this participle. Participles can be translated in different ways. Some possibilities could be, When they fall away Having fallen away If they fall away because they fall away etc. Translations deal with this participle in different ways. I'm not trying to tell you or anybody how to translate this participle. But what I am saying is that you can not translate it in a conditional sense, into "If they fall away," And then take the if and move it else where into the sentence! The IF is ONLY there by virtue of you taking the "to fall away" participle in that sense. You can not treat the IF as an independent word in the sentence and debate where it is applied. This is literally a grammatically impossible interpretation of the greek. I hope this helps. I know it didn't answer the verse for you, but I didn't want you to go away with an answer that is literally impossible grammatically. In Christ, Beja |
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4 | What is interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6 | Heb 6:9 | lightedsteps | 220828 | ||
Hi Beja Going to my Greek Interlinear Bible I find it says. Heb.6:4-6 4.) For (it is) impossible. (For) impossible the (ones) once being enlightened and tasting of the (2)gift - (1)heavenly and sharers becoming Spirit of (the) Holy 5.) and (2)(the) good (1)tasting (4)of God (3)word and the powerful deeds of a coming age, 6.) and falling away, again to renew to repentance, crucifying again for themselves the Son - of God and putting (him) to open shame. The "IF" in all actuality was more than likely added, because in the translation from Greek into English, there needed to be a connector in order for the English to sound correct to the reader. Even with the "IF" removed, I come to the same conclusion, based on what was written in the 4th. verse. "For (it is) impossible. (For) impossible" Therefore the "IF" isn't needed to understand what Paul was writing, he makes the point in the 4th. verse. He is making a declaration, it does not need to be qualified. He is in essence saying, anyone having accepted this Grace (gift) of God, and everything it entails, cannot detract from, or in any way nullify the sacrificial work of Jesus. Once becoming a child of God, He never disinherits anyone. Because of the shame it would bring upon His name to/in the world. We also should have our confidence in God. Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 1Co 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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5 | What is interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6 | Heb 6:9 | Beja | 220830 | ||
Lightedsteps, I'm not trying to argue that one can loose their salvation. I don't think that this passage is teaching that a person can loose it. I believe whole heartedly in the Calvinist doctrine of Perseverance of the Saints. But I can tell you for certain where the IF came from. If you want to have IF in there at all it is unavoidably connected to the "falling away." Your end conclusion I wouldn't begrudge. But you have to translate the falling away some how and the options are limited. I can tell you for certain that what it is defined as impossible is the renewing to repentence. In the greek there is really no room for confusion. The main clause is "For it is impossible to renew them to repentence." Now from there you can argue the passage multiple ways, but that much greek grammer constrains us to. There is a fellow that frequents these forums, Bro. Tim. He seems to be more proficient in greek than I am and I would urge him to validate or correct my claims here if he notices this post. But once again, I don't think you are comming to a wrong conclusion, you are just reaching it in a way the grammer won't support. In Christ, Beja |
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6 | What is interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6 | Heb 6:9 | lightedsteps | 220836 | ||
Dear brother Beja I do not mean to belabor the question, seeing that greater minds than mine have grappled over this issue for centuries. Seeing we are of the same mind, as far as our understanding of the irrevocable nature of our Salvation. Let me if I may, ask one question, in the light of 2 other verses of scripture, that I base my understanding of the Heb. verses in question on. 1.) What was it that separated Adam from God, what has it been since Adam, that has separated mankind from God? When reading the following verses, keep in mind, "It is impossible", for us to fall away, as assuredly as "It would be impossible" for us to be renewed, if we could fall away. My true understanding of the Heb. verses are that both statements are categorically impossible, while true. 1Jn 3:6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. 1Jn 3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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7 | What is interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6 | Heb 6:9 | Beja | 220839 | ||
Lightedsteps, Sin seperates us from God. In Christ, Beja |
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