Results 1 - 12 of 12
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What does He 11:39,40 mean? | Heb 11:40 | bstudent | 114608 | ||
What "something better" did Paul foresee for himself and other Christians? | ||||||
2 | What does He 11:39,40 mean? | Heb 11:40 | Rowdy | 114622 | ||
I've copied the verses below for context: Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated 38 (men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground. 39 And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect. First of all, we should remember the main theme throughout the book of Hebrews is the superiority of Christianity, as Law of Liberty over the previous Law of Moses. Second point is this chapter 11 in particular is known by most Bible scholars as the "Hall of Fame" of God's faithful. Now we know who verse 39 is talking about. They didn't have a clear idea of redemption or salvation in the OT. They didn't even have a clear portrayal of Heaven in the OT so they really did have to put their faith in God. And of course we all know they didn't get forgiveness for their sins, not as far as God was concerned until His perfect sacrifice was made on the Cross IAW Rom 8:13. So the Plan of Salvation that is clearly described throughout the NT, is made available and is fully known to us in this dispensation. See Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. ...and thank God for it. God's blessings to you. |
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3 | How are pre-Christians made perfect? | Heb 11:40 | bstudent | 114624 | ||
How will these 'hall-of'famer' be made perfect in connection with those that receive "something better?" | ||||||
4 | How are pre-Christians made perfect? | Heb 11:40 | EdB | 114638 | ||
Hi and Welcome to the forum Jesus upon His death descended into Hades which is translated hell. However in Hades there was two sides divided by a hugh void. Luke 16 In any case Jesus preached the Good New to those in Abraham's Bosom and lead captive captivity Eph 4:8 to heaven. In other words the righteous that died before Christ looking for the Christ were in Abraham's bosom or paradise awaiting the Messiah. Jesus went there, preached to them and they accepted his salvation and were taken home. That side of Hades is now empty, the hot dry side still contains the unrighteous dead that await the judgement. EdB |
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5 | How are pre-Christians made perfect? | Heb 11:40 | Rowdy | 114675 | ||
Thanks again. Definitely something to think about although the scriptures aren't particularly clear on this subject, it certainly is quite possible. | ||||||
6 | How are pre-Christians made perfect? | Heb 11:40 | EdB | 114696 | ||
Rowdy I disagree the scripture are fairly clear on this. Rather than me doing all the leg work and getting all the verses let me suggest you read some past threads on this issue. Do a search on Jesus and hell, Abraham's bosom, paradise, or hades. I think you will see there are enough scriptures that we can piece together a pretty accurate picture of what and how this took place. EdB |
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7 | How are pre-Christians made perfect? | Heb 11:40 | Rowdy | 114740 | ||
I'm not questioning your use of the scriptures as they are there to give us a glimpse of what Hell is like. All I'm saying is after this world is "burned up" and the whole universe as God created it is destroyed, God's spiritual world is going to be all that's left. There won't be any oxygen or fuel with which to burn the proverbial "fires of Hell." There won't be any "nashing of teeth," at least not any physical teeth that you and I know about. I've studied on this topic for quite some time and have compared this figurative language to that in Revelation and Isaiah. In my opinion it seems that our Lord uses this kind of language when He's trying to describe something for which we don't have a common point of reference. In other words, just as we don't have a clue what Heaven is really going to look like, I don't think God has been able to describe what Hell is going to be like. I don't think you really expect to see "streets of gold," or "palaces of pearl," "seas of glass" in Heaven for the same reasons as stated above, do you?. Those kind of hard, physcial items of earthly elements won't exist either after Judgment Day. Don't get me wrong, I'm quite certain there will be Heaven and Hell and in the mean time, it looks like according to scripture there now exists Hades and Paradise. Now what those actual places look like as to actual details, I don't think the Bible reveals it in the very same kind of details that we're going to recognize when we arrive at one of those places. The things we do know for an absolute fact is that Heaven is going to be wonderful because it's with God and Hell is going to be a very miserable place because it's without God. It seems the figurative language was used to motivate us to respond appropriately: love for Heaven and intense hatred for Hell. I'm sorry, but the only scripture I can recall to support my conclusions on this matter from Peter. 2 Pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. I'd be interested in your response. I realize this is kinda radical and you might take a while. God bless. |
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8 | How are pre-Christians made perfect? | Heb 11:40 | EdB | 114768 | ||
Rowdy Yes I think Revelation and Isaiah does use figurative language to some extent but to declare both books void of literal meaning is wrong. In Revelation chapter 20-22 we see a description of the Lake of Fire. That description is very literal and I see no reason to assume it be figurative. Also in those chapters we see a description of the New Heaven and New Earth along with the city New Jerusalem. Again those verses are to be taken literally not as figurative descriptions of events. There is a rule of exegsis, that being "Take all prophecy literally unless it is clear that you can't have a literal meaning. Then get the literal truth conveyed by the figurative language." In cited passages I see no problem with taking the descriptions literal do you? EdB |
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9 | How are pre-Christians made perfect? | Heb 11:40 | Rowdy | 114778 | ||
I'm quite sincere about the figurative language but I'm also trying to keep an open mind. Please expound to me about this a little more. IF the whole of God's creation is going to be totally disintagrated back into nothingness or void like it was before He created, what will the Lake of Fire be fueled on? What will the New Heaven and the New Earth look like? What are the dimensions? How will we stay on this New Earth? With or without gravity? Will we be consuming food or some kind of nourishment for our new spiritual bodies? I'm not saying all of Revelation or Isaiah CANNOT be taken literally; I'm just urging caution when we think about these things. Again, we must be open minded to God and His spiritual world. We don't have any common point(s) of reference for truly understanding what His world is really like. Our world here and now is finite and very physical, that's all we know with any absolute authority. Everything about the spiritual world, we get from our Bibles and the Bible only seems to give us figurative type language to describe the actual characteristics of this spiritual world. You didn't address all the points of my previous post. Please take a shot at responding to both those and to the specific points above. For example, do you honestly expect to see "streets of gold," etc. in Heaven? The one verse I do take quite literally is the one from 2 Peter as quoted in my previous post. Please marry this verse into your response. Please feel free to expound as much as you can and God bless you. |
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10 | How are pre-Christians made perfect? | Heb 11:40 | EdB | 114807 | ||
Rowdy We can't put God in a box especially a box built with human hands. God in the creation Genesis 1:3 created light before he created the Sun Genesis 1:16. A God that can do that can handle all the problems you brought up. The Bible doesn’t go into the “hows” of all of this but be sure the God of creation is more than able to make it happen. The fact we don’t have exact dimensions or a complete picture of what it will look like does not mean we should only view it figuratively. Even if God provided a snapshot of the new Heavens and New Earth the questions would still be asked. I’m guessing the verse from Peter your referring to is 2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. To address your question about the oxygen needed for consummation of the earth, in the fire ball of a nuclear explosion which is a burning fire and yet contains no oxygen (the oxygen was first to burn) we see things burned completely. As comets and debris are drawn close to the sun they are consumed yet there is no oxygen in space to fuel the fire. If God is able to sustain the Sun, arrange the planets, create life such as our bodies with 60,000 miles of veins and blood vessels, create the rose, and the minds that would question Him, He is able to have a fire that will consume this earth and all that is upon it. Do I expect to see streets of Gold? I expect to dance upon streets of Gold not just see them! Why is that such a stumbling block for you? I have seen gold in sheets thin enough to be transparent film on window glass. Furthermore the God that created gold is certainly able to modify the molecular structure of Gold to make it further transparent if that was the problem. But say for an instance the streets aren’t gold as we define gold but rather a material that appears as golden yet is transparent . Is this passage then just figurative or is literally describing a the golden streets of heaven? As for food we will eat of the “Tree of Life” that will produce a different fruit each month and the leaves of the tree will be used for healing of the nations. Rev 22:2 Rowdy your questions all hinge on the scientific how to’s. If you want to ponder a natural impossibility that God has performed ponder the virgin birth. In the natural there is no way for a reproductive egg to be fertilized and the woman to remain a virgin yet that is exactly what God accomplished. If we try to limit God to our physical science we fall short of understanding God. God transcends man’s science, man’s understanding and even nature. If God so desired He could eliminate gravity and still have everything as it is, with one exception we would then question how He did it. The answer to that questions He is God! Let me address one last point. While I’m not saying this is the case, let us for the sake of this discussion say all of this does take place in the spiritual realm rather than our existing physical realm. Does that make these passages any less literal? If the spiritual realm becomes our reality and if these events takes place in that reality would that not still be a literal happening? Yes it would, the venue would have changed but the event occurred as presented. EdB |
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11 | How are pre-Christians made perfect? | Heb 11:40 | Rowdy | 114839 | ||
As I mentioned yesterday dear friend, you've given me quite a bit to consider. I'm not convinced 2 Pet 3:10 can be resolved as you've done here but I'll admit there's not much in the Bible on this subject. I did take special note of the fact that most of your post is your opinion as was mine. I really appreciate the discussion. I'm still very much interested in what the rest of the Forum might say about this subject. Any takers out there? Put your thinking caps on and tackle it and God bless you all. |
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12 | How are pre-Christians made perfect? | Heb 11:40 | EdB | 114843 | ||
Rowdy Your exactly right most of my comment was opinion based on our limited knowledge of God. In areas where the Bible doesn’t give specific information and we try to give specific answers it has to be based on evidence found in the Bible. I tried to show you that clearly God has transcended our knowledge of science and violated what we consider to scientific law or facts. If God was able to create light before He created the Sun, if God was able to impregnate Mary while she remained a virgin, if Jesus could past through walls and locked doors, if locked chains fell from prisoners, if dead were resurrected, if Jesus could see a man sitting under a tree without physically seeing him, if spit could open blind eyes, if a touch could cure disease then I believe there is enough evidence to say God is capable of doing all that He declared and that my friend with that kind of evidence transcend mere opinion. EdB |
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