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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is the ASV equal to the NASB? | 2 Tim 3:16 | Makarios | 216622 | ||
Greetings Justme! Al Maxey has some very helpful comments in finding strengths/weaknesses in the ASV: http://www.zianet.com/maxey/Ver7.htm And he has a similar page of strengths/weaknesses in the NASB: http://www.zianet.com/maxey/Ver6.htm One verse that was mentioned was 1 Corinthians 2:13: The ASV reads, "Which things also we speak, not in words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Spirit teacheth; combining spiritual things with spiritual words." ('words' italicized) The NASB (both '77 and '95) reads, "which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words." ('thoughts' and 'words' are both italicized) Just for comparison, the ESV reads "And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual." The NET Bible: "And we speak about these things, not with words taught us by human wisdom, but with those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people. (1)" with the following textual note: "1 tn Or “combining spiritual things with spiritual words” (i.e., words the Spirit gives, as just described)." And the NKJV: "These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual." I pick on this verse because it has always somewhat intrigued me that the NASB translators followed the ASV with the 'things' and 'words' addition at the end of this verse, which implies a little bit of interpretation, rather than just stick with the 'comparing spiritual things with spiritual' like the KJV. There are other places that the ASV and NASB are very similar as well, seemingly of the 'same mind' it seems. I believe that perhaps the biggest difference between the NASB and the ASV is that the NASB was translated with the help of many more available manuscripts and resources available for translation, whereas the ASV did not have so many at the time. The article above will point out this difference and how it affects translation in several areas, specifically with proper nouns. J.P. Green of Lafayette, IN wrote a 'literal' translation of the Bible, and this was his translation of 1 Cor. 2:13 "Which things we also speak, not in words taught in human wisdom, but in Words taught of the Holy Spirit, comparing spiritual things with spiritual things." ('Words' and last occurrence of 'things' italicized) I do not believe that the ASV could be considered as 'more reliable' than the NASB we have today simply because of the larger amount of resources that the NASB translators have access to. But the ASV will always be a great source to go back to in order to understand how some of the modern translations came up with their more formal equivalent renderings. The Vulgate could even be more 'literal' in some places than the KJV, but it would be much more difficult to read if you don't know Latin. Even though the ASV was translated using English, the NASB '77 and '95 are far superior because of the contemporary English and utilization of all available resources. Blessings to you, Makarios |
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2 | Is the ASV equal to the NASB? | 2 Tim 3:16 | Morant61 | 216623 | ||
Greetings Makarios! Excellent post! The other day, I had made the comment that translation of the New Testament is usually not difficult in and of itself, but the process of putting the thoughts and words into English can often be difficult. 1 Cor. 2:13 is an example of where even the translation itself is difficult. The last phrase literally reads: 'with spiritual spiritual combining'. The two "spiritual's" are from the same word, but they are in different cases and could even be different in gender. The second occurrence is clearly neuter in gender, but the first could be neuter or masculine. So, there is no certainty about what Paul means. Is he speaking of spiritual 'things', 'people', or 'words'? Even the meaning of the verb is not clear. It could have the meaning of combining, comparing or even of interpreting. Here is what A. T. Robertson says about the phrase: "Comparing spiritual things with spiritual (pneumatikois pneumatika sunkrinontes). Each of these words is in dispute. The verb sunkrino, originally meant to combine, to join together fitly. In the lxx it means to interpret dreams (Genesis 40:8, 22; 41:12) possibly by comparison. In the later Greek it may mean to compare as in 2 Co 10:12. In the papyri Moulton and Milligan (Vocabulary) give it only for “decide,” probably after comparing. But “comparing,” in spite of the translations, does not suit well here. So it is best to follow the original meaning to combine as do Lightfoot and Ellicott. But what gender is pneumatikois? Is it masculine or neuter like pneumatika? If masculine, the idea would be “interpreting (like lxx) spiritual truths to spiritual persons” or “matching spiritual truths with spiritual persons.” This is a possible rendering and makes good sense in harmony with 1 Co 2:14. If pneumatikois be taken as neuter plural (associative instrumental case after sun in sunkrinontes), the idea most naturally would be, “combining spiritual ideas (pneumatika) with spiritual words” (pneumatikois). This again makes good sense in harmony with the first part of 1 Co 2:13. On the whole this is the most natural way to take it, though various other possibilities exist." Great discussion! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Is the ASV equal to the NASB? | 2 Tim 3:16 | Makarios | 216633 | ||
Greetings Tim, Thank you for the textual note on 1 Cor. 2:13, which does indeed shed some light on this verse that seems to vary from translation to translation. So we are not sure exactly what 'pneumatikois pneumatika sunkrinontes' means? If the formal equivalence is not quite on target or cannot provide a clear answer, then would this be an example of where dynamic equivalence might be the best answer? Your Brother in Christ, Makarios |
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4 | Is the ASV equal to the NASB? | 2 Tim 3:16 | Morant61 | 216640 | ||
Greetings Makarios! It certainly would be a case where one could not be too dogmatic about one's position. :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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