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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Bible Study | 2 Tim 2:15 | Makarios | 94517 | ||
Bible Study _______________ "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." "But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;" "And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus." "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine." - 2 Tim. 2:15; 3:14-17; 4:2, KJV "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee." "For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven." "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." "Thy testimonies are wonderful: therefore doth my soul keep them. The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple." "Order my steps in thy word: and let not any iniquity have dominion over me." - Psalm 119:11, 89, 105, 129, 130, 133, KJV "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." - John 20:31, KJV |
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2 | Bible Study | 2 Tim 2:15 | flinkywood | 94522 | ||
Makarios, good to see you in here. I notice your liberal use of the KJV. Have you un-hitched slightly from the NASB? I also wanted your take on the following: Have you noiced differences in Hebrew verb tenses in the ESV V. the NASB? To wit, Psalm 63.1: ESV: "Oh God, you are my God; earnestly I seek you;" NASB: "Oh, God, You are my God; I shall seek you earnestly..." I read that Hebrew tenses are difficult to reckon, but these translations are dissimilar: in the ESV he is in the process of seeking; in the NASB he is testifying about his will or desire to seek, which also includes the sense vowing or pledging. The senses are not alike, it seems to me. Why do you think the ESV goes present tense, and the NASB future? Also, notice the NASB: "I 'shall' seek you earnestly..." Then, in V.10: NASB: "They 'will' be delivered... they 'will' be a prey..." When in the: ESV: "They shall be given over... they shall be a portion..." KJV: "They shall fall... They shall be a portion..." The NASB appears to interchange "Shall" and "Will" without pattern. To my understanding these uses are distinct. 'Will' has the aspect of willingness, volition, deliberate choosing: "Early will I seek thee..." (KJV) "I shall seek You earnestly..." (NASB) lacks force of will. It's as if the writer were holding back from full commitment: "Will you take this woman..." "I shall, (I guess)." Shall is less definite than will. "They will be a prey..." sounds as if there were some complicity on the part of the prey, not utter future surprise and regret: "They shall be a prey..." As in "Hey, I'm a prey; who'd a thunk it?" I like very much the sense of psalm 63 delivered in the NASB (in contrast to the ESV), but I'm disturbed by the seeming carelessness of Shall v. Will. Any idea what might give here? |
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3 | Bible Study | 2 Tim 2:15 | Makarios | 94531 | ||
Greetings Flinkywood! Have I "un-hitched" slightly from the NASB? :-) I still greatly enjoy the NASB and I continue to use it as my main source of study. But I do spend a lot of quality time with my ESV, my NKJV, and the KJV of late, to the point that they should not feel neglected.. :-) I have always said and thought that a "good" Bible is a "used" Bible, and if a Bible does not show any 'signs' of usage, then it needs to be moved or put in a different place, or given to someone new. Many verses that I have been studying just sound and flow better in the KJV, and I have allowed myself to go back to the KJV from time to time, just to re-read the "familiar" sounding KJV, and to delve into that very same verse with the NASB, just to grasp a more 'complete' meaning of that verse.. "Familiarity" helps, but sometimes does not completely aid in grasping what a specific verse is REALLY trying to bring to my mind, this very minute! I have noticed many differences in the ESV and the NASB, more so than I originally thought that I would find.. But in all of these differences of verb tense, I have found that they generally "come out" to agree (in a 'round about' sense) in just about every passage.. As for Psalm 63:1, I see a great "eagerness" for the Lord being rendered in two different ways in the ESV and the NASB.. The NASB is a lot like the NKJV rendering (future tense), while the ESV is a lot like that of the RSV (present).. But whether the verse is spoken of in the present or future tense, we get sense a great urgency to seek and be with the Lord, to the point that we sense deprivation without His companionship. And that, I would say, is where there is agreement. I believe that the more "correct" sense is the 'present' tense (ESV, RSV) over that of the 'future' (NASB, NKJV), since the continuation that follows is also spoken of in the present tense. I believe that the ESV uses the present tense for consistency, while the NASB and NKJV use the future tense for a greater 'emphasis.' And you will find that to be true in many of the 'different' ESV and NASB passages.. Verse 10 is no different.. The ESV parallels the RSV, while the NASB attempts to substitute 'shall' for 'will', which is slightly different, but added to change the emphasis.. I agree, the NASB is woefully inconsistent with 'shall/will' phrases, and the ESV is far superior. I also agree that "shall" is not a 'direct' substitute for "will", and it should not be used in that way. In Lockman's attempts to make the 1977 NASB less "wooden", it seems that they may have missed the opportunity to make it more "fluid" by retaining the 'shall' (as in more poetic and straitforward), rather than using 'will' which seems a bit cumbersome in several areas, including Psalm 63.. Blessings to you, Makarios |
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4 | Bible Study | 2 Tim 2:15 | flinkywood | 94540 | ||
This carelessness with auxiliaries (shall, will) in English OT future tenses made me nuts for a brief spell last winter. I resolved to memorize in the KJV (it happens, if you notice, automatically with the KJV)--tenses schmenses, I say. You and I have talked about the version thing a bunch of times. Like you, I turn a lot to the NASB, but lately that old KJV magic's got me in its spell. I just can't hack some of the "modern" renderings. "And let steadfastness have it's full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing." (ESV). More "accurate"? Certainly less memorable. Or 2 Cor 9.7: "Each one must give as he has made up his mind..." (ESV). Well, Makarios, I'm very decisive (read "I make up my mind a lot"), but if it weren't for my heart, I'd probably never tithe. Yet I read Romans in the NASB because I can understand it better than the KJV. (Romans is just as cool in the ESV). So what's a believer to do? I'd like to pick and stick to one, but like you I turn to the ESV, NASB, NKJV to help me with the KJV, know what I mean? How are you liking the ESV after all this time? Is it doing it for you like the NASB? Colin |
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5 | Bible Study | 2 Tim 2:15 | Makarios | 94553 | ||
Colin, Yes, I have greatly enjoyed our posts about different versions and the different ways that they render verses.. I hope that the NASB didn't drive you too crazy! :) I agree, none, not a single one of these new versions has anywhere near the grasp or ability of linguistic quality of the KJV, although numerous attempts have been made, and I'm beginning to believe that there never will be an 'equal' to the KJV as far as pure, memorizable, and quotable Scripture is concerned. This is quite baffling (for me at least) since we live in a time where constant 'improvement' is unceasingly being sought to the point of duplication over and over again.. But we still have yet to climb that mountain and produce a version that rivals the KJV in authentic linguistic quality! I believe that such a task is ungraspable now, since we would have no doubt found a way to do it by now if such a task could be achieved. Even so, I love the rich accuracy of the NASB and ESV, and there have been peroids where I have used the ESV more frequently than the NASB on occasion. But my usage of the ESV has not overtaken me completely, even though I realize that I would be in excellent hands should anything ever happen to my copies of the NASB.. :-) If anything, I have grown to enjoy the ESV even more and more as I use it, and it is a very solid #2 Bible that I can use for everything: memorization, scripture, and study, even though it is so much easier to memorize out of the KJV than anything else, as you have said.. Without the original autographs in front of us, and without being brought up and raised using the Greek language, I believe that we are best served by using two or three of these translations, with the KJV also within reach.. So you will see me quote from the KJV from time to time.. :-) Blessings to you, Nolan |
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6 | Bible Study | 2 Tim 2:15 | flinkywood | 94617 | ||
I like the way you say it, Nolan. Colin. |
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