Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Evidence of holy spirit in a Christian? | 2 Tim 1:14 | Makarios | 104456 | ||
Greetings Stokeyhk, "What gives evidence that the holy spirit dwells in a Christian?" Ephesians 4:17-32 is an excellent passage of Scripture that describes the walk of a Christian and how we can know, beyond any doubt, whether or not a person has genuinely been saved by the blood of Jesus Christ; if there has been a 'renewal and change of the heart' that has taken place, leaving a person forever changed. Verse 17 states that we should "affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind," - Life without God is intellectually frustrating and meaningless (Romans 1:21; Ecc. 1:2), and if we have not been genuinely, forever saved by the Lord in our hearts and minds, then our actions will "bear witness" of the fact that we have not been truly saved (Romans 8:7; Mark 7:20-23). But those who are saved have the mind of Christ (1 Cor. 2:16), and will therefore produce the 'fruit of Christ' (Galatians 5:22-23). "But you did not learn Christ in this way, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit," (vv. 20-22)- The old way of thinking, the old lifestyle that is spoken of in verses 18-19 in which we were slaves to, is 'laid aside', so that we do not freely choose to act upon those desires any more. A person who is truly saved would have the same attitude about sin that God does (Romans 7:22), and lays aside those sinful deeds that he did in the past, because our bodies are dead to sin (Romans 6:6; 7:24). Those who are saved are renewed in the spirit of their minds (Eph. 4:23), putting on the new self, which is in the likeness of God (4:24). Therefore, we know beyond any doubt, that a person who has been genuinely saved no longer uses his hands to steal and commit sin, but leaves that behind, and begins to do the things with his hands that he has been called to do by the Lord (4:28); called not of his own accord, but called by the Lord to do the Lord's work, which is not in and of himself, but of the Lord. When a man stops what he is doing and considers the Word of God, and then sets out to do that which God wants him to do, then we know that a change has occurred in this man's life! And if the person willingly does those things with his hands that the Lord has set him to do, then we know that this person was truly set apart and saved by the Lord Jesus Christ. We know that there has been an irrevocable change- since he is no longer doing those things that he did before, but he has set himself to do that which is the Lord's work, "performing with his own hands what is good." Blessings to you, Makarios |
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2 | Evidence of holy spirit in a Christian? | 2 Tim 1:14 | Aixen7z4 | 104506 | ||
O, Makarios, my dear brother, I’m just not sure. I’m just not sure. It might be the issue of practical vs. positional sanctification again. When a person is saved, does his behavior change, automatically? He is changed. He is a new creature. But those new behaviors have to be learned, I think. The issues in Ephesians in Ephesians 4 are commands, exhortations, encouragements. “Let him that stole steal no more”. Paul is not saying, “Look at yourselves and notice that you are not stealing anymore”. He is saying, “You are saved now, so make sure there is no more stealing”. My point is that I think these new behaviors do not appear automatically. They have to be taught. The teaching requires awareness, explanation, modeling, practice, and reinforcement. I do not think we can say that these behaviors appear automatically. It is only if they did appear without the volition of the believer that we could point to them as evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit. When a person is saved, he finds himself with joy of salvation, the peace of God may flood his heart. But it seems to me that other attributes such as patience and longsuffering have to be developed. “Tribulation worketh patience”, etc. It seems to me that a desire for patience is an evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit, not the patience itself. Again, the things Paul is mentioning are things the believer has to do, not just things to look for. He might have said, as Peter said, “Giving all diligence, add to your faith …”. If the question is what evidences exist, I think they would have to be things we simply look and see, like joy and peace, not things we have to give diligence to put on or put off. What do you think? |
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3 | Evidence of holy spirit in a Christian? | 2 Tim 1:14 | Makarios | 104547 | ||
Greetings Aixen7z4, The following should quell all your doubts. Those who are saved early in life may not as easily recognize the "putting off" of the old nature and taking on the new nature in Christ, as those who are saved at a later age. What would make an Eskimo renounce fur or make a vegetarian barbecue hamster? :-) What kind radical change in a human being produces a never-ending joy and song in his heart that wasn't there before, and could only be put there by one thing? When we are saved, we have a love for God that is undeniable (Ps. 42:1; 73:25; Luke 10:27; Rom. 8:7); we have humility (Ps. 51:17; Matt. 5:1-12; James 4:6,9) and truly repent of our sins (Ps. 32:5; Prov. 28:13; Rom. 7:14; 2 Cor. 7:10; 1 John 1:8-10); we have a love that is "selfless" (1 John 2:9, 3:14; 4:7). As I have said before in my first post, we stop doing that which we are doing (Eph. 4:28), and begin to do that which is of the will of God, being separated to Him from the world (1 Cor. 2:12; James 4:4; 1 John 2:15-17; 5:5) and live obediently towards God (Matt. 7:21; John 15:14; Rom. 16:26; 1 Pet. 1:2,22; 1 John 2:3-5). And this is the true 'evidence' of salvation: that there is spiritual growth that takes place (Luke 8:15; John 15:1-6; Eph. 4:12-16); evidenced by our continual life of prayer (Luke 18:1; Eph. 6:18; Phil. 4:6; 1 Tim. 2:1-4; James 5:16-18) and devotion to God's glory (Ps. 105:3; 115:1; Is. 43:7; 48:10; Jer. 9:23,24; 1 Cor. 10:31). Therefore, if the above is true about a person, who has noticeably been changed (Eph. 4:17-32) from their former self, then we know that the visible, outward "signs" that we normally associate as being evidence for salvation, but cannot truly be convincing, in and of themselves of salvation, such as their visible morality (Matt. 19:16-21; 23:27), their intellectual knowledge (Rom. 1:21; 2:17) and their religious involvement (Matt. 25:1-10), will also be 'fruits' of that true, honest, inner conviction of the Holy Spirit that has taken place. Proverbs 11:1 states, "A false balance is an abomination to the LORD, but a just weight is His delight." Therefore, one who is truly saved is one who is living his life based on a "true measure", or in purity of heart (Prov. 11:1-2). A saved person is one who can also be described as "principle driven" with the crowning hallmark of integrity (v. 3), without any "crookedness" of their former life (Eph. 4:18). A saved person is that which can be 'publicly effective' (v. 10,11) due to the righteousness (v. 5) that he embodies. A saved person is a sound provider of council (v. 14) who replies with understanding (v. 12,15). Authentic faith is provisional in its focus (vv. 24-26) with a goal in sight (v. 19), but the unsaved only scatter. One who is saved has a change in perspective- from a perspective that is temporary to that which is eternal (Proverbs 11:29-30), and he who is wise wins souls! So, therefore, the above, without any shadow of a doubt, will be true of a saved person, but not always true of a person who is not saved. And the same can be said of what Paul wrote in Eph. 4:17-32. Blessings to you, Makarios |
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4 | Evidence of holy spirit in a Christian? | 2 Tim 1:14 | Aixen7z4 | 104568 | ||
OK, Makarios. These things can be. We should not be surprised to see the things you listed in the life of a believer. They are desirable and possible. However, they are not inevitable. In many cases they are not present. If we make them out to be evidences we are saying that their absence indicates the Holy Spirit is not in the life. That cannot be true. As I indicated before, Paul is asking the Ephesians to put on these things. If they were already there he would not have to ask them to put them on. They can be there. They should be there, in a believer‘s life. But they are not always there. Therefore they are not evidence. As you noted before, some of these things are found in unbelievers. Again, their presence in an unbeliever would not be evidence that the unbeliever possesses the holy Spirit. That cannot be. You can take any of the items you have mentioned and recognize that a believer sometimes does not have it. Does that mean then that he does not have the Holy Spirit? I think I have read you enough to know that you believe every believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. I hope I have not read you wrong. I wish I did not have to write this, but I guess truth is sometimes sad. I was speaking to a pastor today about a lady who made a profession of faith earlier this year. She showed the joy of the Lord and other evidences of salvation. She was baptized and spent three months in joyful fellowship. She declared that she had given up all other goals for the goal of living for the Lord. I found out today that she has gone back to her former life as a common-law wife. For those who are not familiar with that term, she is living with a man to whom she is not married. Evidence of salvation, and the presence of the Holy Spirit, would not now be joy and peace. It would be a sense of guilt and shame. I hope you understand me. If a person is saved and living for the Lord he will have some or all of the things you mentioned. If he is practicing sin, he will not. He will have the opposite. Yet I am assuming in all cases where we say a person is saved, that we also know the person is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not leave a believer. So, evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit varies. And yet, I feel embarrassed to have had to say these things. I think it should have been clear if a believer is being asked to replace irresponsibility and stealing with industry and benevolence it would not be logical to think that the change had already taken place. I think it is not the change which is evidence but the willingness to change. Learning, perhaps starting with a reading of the epistle, produces the change. The Holy Spirit uses the word of God to convict and to encourage. But even a believer can resist and grieve the Holy Spirit. This in itself is proof that the Holy Spirit is resident. OK. Enough said. Let us think on these things. |
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5 | Evidence of holy spirit in a Christian? | 2 Tim 1:14 | Makarios | 104577 | ||
Aixen7z4, Are you speaking of discipleship, or being filled with the Holy Spirit? Beyond that, I do not follow you at all. Blessings to you, Makarios |
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6 | Evidence of holy spirit in a Christian? | 2 Tim 1:14 | Aixen7z4 | 104580 | ||
My dear brother, take some time to think about it. You have been describing an ideal Christian. But all saved people are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. When we are filled with the Spirit he produces what he will. When we are discipled we grow and become more like the Master. But being indwelt by the Spirit is another matter. Once we are saved, and forever thereafter, we are indwelt by the Spirit. That is a fact, and we might have been left to accept it on the authority of the word of God (John 14:17; Romans 8:11; 1 Corinthians 3:16, 1 Corinthians 6:19; 2 Corinthians 5:16; Ephesians 2:22; 2 Timothy 1:14, etc.). But God in his grace has given us indications and evidences of His Presence. Recognizing His presence, we can surrender to him to be filled at his will, and empowered, and to learn and grow. But we can also resist him. Even with that, He never leaves us or forsakes us. He is ever present, and the one whom he indwells can know it. |
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7 | Evidence of holy spirit in a Christian? | 2 Tim 1:14 | Makarios | 104588 | ||
So we are discussing discipleship. :-) I agree, we do not automatically 'assume' or are given all of those 'traits' that I mentioned in my first and second posts unless we have been through a bit of discipleship, and have gone through a bit of 'growing up'. I have an idea that this is what you are thinking.. But the sad part of it is, is that not everyone goes through the discipleship that will carry them through to maturity in Christ. And what I have been describing is a Christian who is mature and strong in the faith, with the assurance of their salvation. While I cannot personally say that I have discipled anyone, I can bear testimony to the fact that there have been a few faithful men who are "pillars of the faith" that I can point to who have been examples for me and have shown me what it means to truly be a Christian man, so that I can now stand on my own, even though I continue to grow in the faith. I have not formally assumed an opportunity to help another person grow in the faith, even though many people have told me that I have been an encouragement to their faith. I am a 27 year old single man. Perhaps I will have the opportunity for discipleship in regards to other men in the years ahead. Blessings to you, Makarios |
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8 | Evidence of holy spirit in a Christian? | 2 Tim 1:14 | flowing | 104589 | ||
but how does one actualy get to go through discipleship? Does or is one discipled when one goes through trials...(James 1:2) or is there a stage in ones life, where one realises that something has changed in ones life that can only be caused by spending time with God (The Holy Spirit?) [john 14:26] flowing. |
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