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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Evidence of holy spirit in a Christian? | 2 Tim 1:14 | Ray | 104441 | ||
Hi Aixen7z4, Thank you for bringing forward this question that was asked by stokeyhk. I will answer your post in case he doesn't respond, being away for over a year. Your first two Scripture references are to my mind perfect matches. Ephesians 4:30"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of (God), by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." This is a Person who can be grieved. Romans 8:16, "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of (God)." In your writing about the verse in your post you left out 'Himself". And the King James is rendered, "The Spirit itself beareth witness". Here again, however, we would agree would we not, that the Holy Spirit is a Person not an it. The questioner, stokeyhk, asked about the evidence of the holy [sic] spirit [sic]. You did not take note of that in your post and you spoke of the Holy Spirit and his [sic] presence. This leaves it ambiguous whether you think of the Spirit as a "His" or an it. 1 Corinthian 2 speaks of words of wisdom. The Scriptures speak of the spirit of wisdom and/or the Spirit of wisdom, depending on the versions one uses and the interpretations in their contexts. 1 Corinthians 2:7, "BUT we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom, which God predestined before the ages to our glory; 8 the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; 9 BUT just as it is written, 'Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard, And which have not entered the heart of man, All that God has prepared for those who love (Him).'" 1 Corinthians 2:10, "For [Or, but] to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God." I have found it of interest to note that some manuscripts read "revealed them through His Spirit" as indicated by the NKJ. I wonder if it could also be rendered "But to us God revealed [these things] through His spirit." How do we understand these things? From the heart, Ray |
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2 | Evidence of holy spirit in a Christian? | 2 Tim 1:14 | Aixen7z4 | 104445 | ||
Hello again, Brother Ray. Once again I apologize for my lack of capitalization. I had promised to do it for you sake. Rest assured that I do not consider the Holy Spirit a thing. In making reference to his presence I did not think I was using neuter gender. But if it pleases you better, I do recognize His presence. I certainly appreciate the fact that He is a Person. It is only a person, I think, who can indicate their presence and give assurance by speaking and explaining things and by being grieved. I could be wrong about that. Maybe things can do them. But I do believe the Scriptures hold that we recognize the Holy Spirit in our lives as He does these things. I also believe that it is because of His work in me that I understand these things. However, I am afraid I do not detect the difficulty with the different renderings of 1 Corinthians 2:10. To my mind there is no difference between "revealed them through His Spirit" as you indicated is in the NKJV, and “revealed these things through His spirit." It seems clear that “them” refers to “these things”, and that both refer to the things that God has prepared for those who love him. It is interesting for me to note that “the things which God hath prepared for them that love him” (1 Co 2:9) are actually “the deep things of God” (verse 10). According to Psalm 92:5 , God’s thoughts are very deep. As the man with the metal detector finds the treasures buried deep while others pass on by, so the child of God finds the hidden treasures in the word while the natural man cannot. It is because the believer possesses the Holy Spirit. I think that those of us who have Him understand these things. |
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3 | Evidence of holy spirit in a Christian? | 2 Tim 1:14 | Ray | 104483 | ||
Hi Aixen7z4, It is good to talk of these spiritual things. I agree that the "them" of 1 Cor 2:10 are the things prepared by God for those who love Him. But are they revealed by "His Spirit" or "His spirit"? These are different in the number of pronouns of Deity that are used. However, I don't see any difference between my suggested "His spirit" and "revealed through the Spirit" as per the NASB. What I am suggesting is the existence of "spirit" or holy spirit. Just as Ezekiel 36:26-27 speaks of "a new heart and a new spirit within you" and also "put My Spirit within you". In other words, the Spirit and the spirit that He gives are both within us. 1) Personally, I believe that the holy spirit that He gives is what "fills" us. 2) You wrote "As the man with the metal detector finds the treasures buried deep while others pass on by, so the child of God finds the hidden treasure in the word while the natural man cannot. It is because the believer possesses the Holy Spirit." The metal detector would be the Holy Spirit and the hidden treasures would be the holy spirit found in the word. The Holy Spirit is what leads the man to the treasures. If that is close to your understanding of your example, then the only thing I would question is the phrase "the believer possesses the Holy Spirit". Certainly the Holy Spirit is the Person who helps us find the treasure, but we do not possess Him. 1 Corinthians 2:21, 22 both tell us that "all things belong to you". What we possess are the things, the hidden treasures of wisdom. We belong to Christ but Christ does not belong to us. 1 Cor 2:22, "...all things belong to you, 22 and you belong to Christ; and Christ belongs to God." I think that those of us who have His spirit or have been led by the Spirit understand these things.:) 3) Now a look at 1 Cor 2:12 is in order. What have we received? The Spirit who is from God, NASB, or the spirit which if of God, KJ? From the heart, Ray |
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4 | Evidence of holy spirit in a Christian? | 2 Tim 1:14 | Aixen7z4 | 104505 | ||
Brother Ray, I am seeing two things here. First there is the focus of the conversation itself. Second is the idea of a spirit in us other than the Holy Spirit. I think I have been focused on answering the question posed by the person who started the thread. The questioner asked for evidences that the spirit dwells in a Christian. I assumed they could have used caps because they were talking about the third Person of the Godhead. I also thought they might have referred to a person rather than a Christian because the Holy Spirit indwells every Christian. We may say that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is automatic when a person becomes a Christian. If those things are true, then asking for evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is tantamount to asking for evidences of salvation. But it is evidences of His presence that I was focused on. I think I gave three or four items as evidences of His presence. Now, with the varying uses of capitalization (Holy Spirit versus Holy spirit and holy spirit) comes a different idea that I will need to look into. I have thought of that idea before, that there are other spirits in us (spirit of envy, spirit of jealousy, spirit of wisdom) but I have not visited that subject recently. For purposes of this conversation then, I will have to say I do not know. I think you are making a valid point that there is a spirit (maybe spirits) in us beside the Holy Spirit. Whether or not it is He Himself who fills us or whether He fills us with another spirit, I cannot say at this point. I expressed what I thought, that it is He Himself who fills us, but I will need time to look into the matter further. Now I see that Makarios is saying there are certain behaviors which can be taken as evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit. I am not sure about that either. Maybe we can look into that together. I suspect we may not want to tell a person that the fact he has stopped stealing is an evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit. Let’s talk with Nolan. What do you say? |
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5 | Evidence of holy spirit in a Christian? | 2 Tim 1:14 | FightingForTheChurch | 104509 | ||
Hello, my name is Eli and I am fellow believer in Jesus Christ! I'm 18 years old and I was looking for an internet bible forum and that's why I'm here. I was just looking through the posts on my first day here and I fell upon this thread. I do have something to add here if you don't mind... please don't look down on me because of my age, for it is the spirit within a man that speaks! I apologize because I don't know your names... but I noticed that you mentioned that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is automatic when a person becomes a Christian. I have to raise the point that in the Bible this is not true, because if you read in Acts the apostles were laying their hands on Christians in order for the Holy Spirit to come upon them. Jesus himself breathed the Holy Spirit UPON his disciples in John 20:22. And in Acts 8:14-17 we see probably the most clearest picture of the Holy Spirit being received through the laying on of the hands. Also in Acts 9:17-19 Paul himself receives the Holy Spirit when Ananias lays his hands on him via instruction of Jesus Christ! And later Paul lays his hands on a group of Christians he meets on the road and they are filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 19:1-6) Even as far back as Deuteronomy 34:9 we see the Holy Spirit being received when Moses lays his hands on Joshua. This process was specifically instructed by God if you read Numbers 27:18-22. But we must understand that it is not necessarily the Holy Spirit that is being received in all these verses but the "Empowerment" of the Spirit. As it says in Romans 8:9-11, it says that if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ he does not belong to Christ... so we do receive the Spirit upon our salvation, but it goes on to speak of another spirit... "the Spirit that raises Christ from the dead". NOW we are not talking about the Spirit of Christ but the Spirit of Power! The same Spirit that was prayed into Joshua by Moses and Paul by Ananias! (Read Luke 24:49 and Acts 1:8) This is called the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit!" And if you would like more clarity, even Jesus received the empowerment of Spirit when the dove came upon him! For he was God in the flesh, and even in the womb he was full of the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:41)! Once Jesus was baptized and the dove descended we see he now has the power to begin his ministry which he didn't have before. Now full of the Spirit, he can fully operate in the Spirit, being empowered and guided by the Spirit. See Matthew 4:1, Luke 4:1, and Luke 4:14. The exact same thing happens to the apostles in Acts, after Pentecost are not "full of the Spirit" and are supernaturally empowered to do the work of the Lord! (Acts 4:8, Acts 7:55, Acts 13:9, Acts 20:22) So it is clear that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, or the empowerment of the Spirit, are vital in the role of our Christian lives, for then we are able to live according to the Spirit, and walk in Spirit and in truth, being empowered to do the work of the Lord! And as shown in the Bible, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is received through the laying on of hands! It is even listed as an elementary teaching alongside salvation in Hewbrews 6:1-2! But why? Because the Lord loves to use PEOPLE to do his work. Yes the Lord could pour the Spirit of Power on us without the laying on of hands, but throughout the Bible we see that God uses people to carry out the work. God could easily have slain Goliath but instead he chose to use David to do it, and he could easily have brought the walls of Jericho down with one word, but he chose to use His people to do the task. And the reason is to show his people his awesome power, to build our faith, and to get us involved! Isn't it exciting that the Lord wants to empower us to do even greater things than He did?! (John 14:12, Mark 16:15-18) THIS is exciting Christianity! THIS is what we all are called to! I hope this was helpful and encouraging to everyone who reads it! I was brief and there are much more verses I could have given but I feel that the Lord has told me what to say and nothing more. If you want to continue to talk about this feel free to email me at e_brayley@hotmail.com! I would love to talk and go more indepth on this subject! Your brother in Christ, Eli |
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6 | Evidence of holy spirit in a Christian? | 2 Tim 1:14 | Aixen7z4 | 104545 | ||
Dear Eli, Welcome. My advice to you would be to take it easy and tread softly. A statement such as "in the Bible this is not true" is a bold statement. It is also accusatory and condescending, as are other statements such as “what you need to understand …”. It suggests that the people who have gone before you are wrong and you are right. Moreover, it suggests that you know the Bible and they don't. I am not sure why people make statement s like that, but it happens. Personally, I find these statements offensive and unnecessary. Mostly unnecessary. This is a place where everyone reads the Bible and some have learned more than others. It is not because of ignorance that I say the Holy Spirit enters a person's life at the moment of salvation. I may even think that you need to understand that. But I have to be careful no to say that. Believe me, I am aware of the passages you quote. I might even undertake to teach you to put those passages into context. But I do not know you well and I am not sure at this point that you will listen. I would only suggest that you say what you think and think about what others say. To say that, because you read in Acts the apostles were laying their hands on Christians caused the Holy Spirit to come upon them, then that is the way it is today, does not make it so. Let me just say this, and perhaps you will think about it. Some of the things in the book of Acts are transitory. They were done as signs in order to assist the Jewish Christians in understanding what the church would be like. Now, we walk by faith, not by sight. The Holy Spirit comes like a wind and no one knows whither it comes or where it goes. The person who repents of sin and trusts in Christ is saved and his life comes under the control of the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit who baptizes us into the body of Christ, seals us, gives us assurance of salvation and helps us to understand the word of God. I advise you not to go ahead and say you disagree. Think about these things. Search the Scriptures. And may the Lord give you understanding in all things. In this thread we were considering evidences by which we know that we have received the Holy Spirit. Interesting that we are seem to be finding inward evidences and not outward signs. You might want to read about those in this thread and tell us what you think or look for them in the Bible and tell us what you find. |
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7 | Evidence of holy spirit in a Christian? | 2 Tim 1:14 | FightingForTheChurch | 104546 | ||
Dear Mr. Aixen, I do appreciate you responding to my note and I apologize if I have offended anyone or said anything rashly. It is my first time on these forums and I am still learning my way! I am sorry! I do not disagree when you say that the Holy Spirit enters a new believers life upon salvation and that he/she is saved through the Spirit, and is marked with the seal of the Holy Spirit. I am drawing your attention to the endument of power in a Christian's life. We as humans are powerless to preform miracles and signs correct? But when we are empowered by the Spirit as Jesus said, we have the ability to do greater things than He! (Acts 1:8) The result of pentecost thrust the early church into a bizarre new world for all of them! Simple fishermen and farmers found themselves healing sicknesses and casting out demons in Jesus name! The teachers of the law where shocked when they saw uneducated men so fearless and knowledgable in Acts 4:13. I have to disagree with you when you say that the days of the early church or set apart from our present day. I find no scriptures to support the claim that the laying on of hands was for that specific time, and that the power of the Spirit was only given to the early church. If we are to say that those days are gone and we live in a new era of the Spirit where the Power is not poured out then we are not living in the kingdom of God, "for the kingdom of God is not of talk but of Power! 1 Corinthians 4:20" Actually, I have been a witness to the same experiences today that were then! I seen people become full of the power of the Spirit when others had laid hands on them, and I myself have recieved the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands. For me to say that it does not happen today would be denying what God has done for me and I would not dare to do that! And to go on further, I also have laid my hands on other believers and they have been filled with the Holy Spirit in a dramatic way! It is important that we don't convince ourselves of another way of ministering, because Paul said in 1 Corinthians 2:4 that "his teachings were not with wise and pursuasive words but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that faith may not rest on the wisdom of man, but on God's power!" Halleluia! (Read Acts 4:33) Again, I apologize for causing a dispute but this is something laid on my heart and I must let it out. I understand this thread was about the evidence of the Spirit, so you those who are interested read Acts 2 on the day of pentecost, Acts 10 at Cornelius's house, and Acts 19 on the road to Ephusus. You will see what happens to the believers when they are Baptized in the Holy Spirit. The Spirit then enables them to do things they could not do before. (Acts 2:4) Please explore this and ask God do reveal the truth of this subject to you. Grace and peace in Christ, Eli |
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