Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | The Restrainer - Revisited! | 2 Thess 2:7 | Morant61 | 17492 | ||
Greetings CDBJ! Here is my promised attempt to work through 2 Thess. 2:1-12. Context: The context of the passage is clear. Some had apparently heard from someone that the promised future events (the coming of Christ and our being gathered together with Him) had already occurred (2 Thess. 2:1-2). This church appears to have been undergoing intense persecution and the hope of the coming of the Lord was a precious and important promise to them (see 1 Thess. 4-5). However, Paul did not want them to be mentally or emotionally unstable because of a false prophecy, rumor, or even a false letter (2 Thess. 2:2). The fact was that these two events could not take place until two things had occurred: 1) The rebellion occurs, and 2) The man of lawlessness is revealed (2 Thess. 2:3). Unfortunately for us, Paul only alludes to some things which he had already shared with the Thessalonicans (2 Thess. 2:5). So, there will be questions about this text that we will never be able to answer. The Man of Lawlessness Much of this text describes this man of lawlessness who must be revealed before the coming of the Lord and the gathering of the Saints. It is said of him that: 1) He will be a man, but a man characterized as being lawless - v. 3. 2) He will be destined for destruction (cf. Rev. 17:8,11) - v. 3. 3) He will oppose God - v. 4. 4) He will exalt himself over God - v. 4. 5) He will even declare himself to be god in the temple - v. 4. 6) He will be revealed (passive, so someone else reveals or exposes him for who he is) - v. 8. 7) He will be overthrown and destroyed by Christ at His coming - v. 8. 8) His appearance will be with signs, wonders, and evil - vv. 9-10. 9) His appearance will be Satanic in nature - v. 9. The Restrainer All of this is pretty basic to the text. The real questions come when we turn our attention to the meaning of verses 6 and 7. It is clear that the Thessalonicans knew who or what was restraining the man of lawlessness (2 Thess. 2:6), but unfortunately for us, Paul never identifies the restrainer. What do we know for sure? 1) Paul and his audience both knew who or what the restrainer was - v. 6. 2) The purpose of the restraint was to prevent the man of lawlessness from being revealed at an improper time - v. 6. 3) The restraint is presently active - v. 7. 4) The restraint will be removed at some point in the future - v. 7. 5) At that point, the man of lawlessness will be revealed - v. 8. Conclusions The simple fact is that no one can state with any certainty the identity of the restrainer. Scripture is silent on this issue. Thus, any attempts on our part to name the restrainer can only be considered guesses. Here are several assumptions which I believe can be made about the restrainer. 1) The nature of the restraint must be supernatural. 2) The activity of the restrainer has last almost 2,000 years now. Both of these facts indicate that the restrainer could not be a human being. This leads us to the conclusions which some have advanced concerning the identity. a) The Roman Empire. b) Government in general. c) The Church. d) The Holy Spirit. e) And (new to me), Michael the Archangel. I think a) is an impossible position since the Roman empire no longer exists and therefore could not be currently restraining the man of lawlessness. I think b) is questionable. In what sense could a government restrain supernatural evil? I think c), d), and e) are all possible answers. The only problem I have with e) is that there is nothing else in Scripture that indicates this. Dan. 12:1 does not (in my opinion) support this view. Even if it did, Dan. 12:1 identifies Michael as the protector of Israel, not the world. In my view, either c) or d) would be the most likely answers. The Church could be seen as a restraining force until it’s removal from the scene. The Holy Spirit would definitely be able to restrain the man of lawlessness. Ultimately, the real importance of this passage is not in the identify of the restrainer, but in the fact that even the man of lawlessness is subject to God’s sovereign plan. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | The Restrainer - Revisited! | 2 Thess 2:7 | Listener | 35154 | ||
Tim, I hope you won't mind if I try to resurrect this thread on 2 Thess 2:7. You provided some good info on the most prevalent ideas out there on the identity of the "restrainer". I would appreciate some feedback regarding my thoughts on the subject. 1) This is a controvertial passage with many possible interpretations, therefore it is not a good idea to build doctrines using this passage as a proof text. 2) I think the passage may be a little more straightforward than is often assumed. If we stick to the basics of looking at the context and comparing scripture with scripture I think the knot may unravel itself. The context tells us: It is the Antichrist that it is the "secret power of lawlessness" that is currently being restrained. This is related to "the man of lawlessness" and "the coming of the lawless one". This is clearly referring to the spirit of antichrist and the antichrist, also referred to as the beast in the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. So the question which follows, if we are seeking the identity of the restrainer, is: Who is restraining the antichrist/spirit of antichrist now? To answer this question, let's see where the Bible says the antichrist/beast is now, and how he is being restrained. Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. So it is clear from these passages that the beast "is not, and yet is" and that he is in the bottomless pit. Let's look at one more related passage. The context of the following verse is a time yet future, the thousand year reign of Christ on earth. The verse is usefull for our study, however, because it tells us something of the nature and purpose of the bottomless pit. Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. So the bottomless pit is a place where the antichrist will be "shut up" and "sealed". Whatever else it may be, it is a place where the antichrist is "restrained". Who is doing the restraining? Two more passages shed additional light. Revelation 9:1 ¶And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. Revelation 20:1 ¶And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. So it would appear from these passages that it is the one who posesses the key, the angel or He who gives the key to the angel, is the one restraining. Now we are back to the original thought on this passage. Some would like to use the passage as a proof text for a pre-trib rapture. But "what saith the scripture?" Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. Matthew 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. Thanks, Listener |
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3 | The Restrainer - Revisited! | 2 Thess 2:7 | Robert Nicholson | 35239 | ||
Dear listener: I know that there are disagreements as to the one of Rev. 9:1. Whoever this is he is given that "key to the bottomless pit" which belongs to Christ according to Rev. 9:1. It is also significant to read the marginal reading of Rev. 9 V1 "I saw a star "fallen" from heaven until earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit" Rev. 9:1 I would suggest that this could relate back to Isaiah 14:12 regarding the fall of Satan (lucifer) as testified by our Lord Jesus Christ in Luke 10:18. These trumpet judgements provide us with the judgment of God upon those who have hardened themselves against him. It would appear that God is using Satan to opening the bottomless pit and to release destruction never known to mankind. This bottomless pit however, is where Satan himself will be imprisioned for 1000 years. Rev. 20:1 In our present age those who have been redeemed have been given power over Satan. "greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world." 1 John 4:4. Who is he who hindereth the attack of the lawless one upon this earth? It would appear that it is he who has the ultimate power, our Lord Jesus Christ himself. All the events which shall happen hereafter are in his control. Is it the church? We know that "God hath not appointed us to wrath" 1 Thess. 4:9 The Lord Jesus took the wrath of God which should of been ours upon his own body on the tree. In 2 Thess. the church was being troubled with false information which informed them that they were going to suffer the "day of the Lord" It is interesting to note that in Rev.3 which covers the church age that in chapter 4 we see a door opened in heaven and the call is "come up hither" From this point on the church is always mentioned in a heavenly sense and is removed before the judgment on the earth begins. I am not a knee slapping disciple of Lehay and Co. , but I believe that the coming of Christ is seen from two aspects: a) for his people 1 Thess. 4 and with his people 2 Thess. 1. I believe that in Rev. we see an earthly company saved out of the great tribulation which includes Israel and Gentile nations who have not heard the gospel. Rev. 7 I am open to other ideas. In Christ Robert |
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4 | The Restrainer - Revisited! | 2 Thess 2:7 | Listener | 35329 | ||
Hi Robert, Thanks for responding to my post. I understand what you are saying. Unfortunately I raised too many issues in my previous post, please let me stick to "the restrainer" for a moment. I agree with your observation that the "star fallen from heaven to earth" would seem to be a spiritually fallen angel in Revelation 9:1. The angel in Revelation 20:1, which throws Satan into the bottomless pit is apparently not fallen. Taking both these passages into account, along with what was previously posted, one may assert: 1) The antichrist/beast is the entity restrained. 2) The location of restraint is the bottomless pit. (from previous post) 3) He (the Lord Jesus) who owns the key to the pit is the restrainer, directly or indirectly. 4) When He yields the key of the pit to the fallen angel, the beast will arise from the pit. 5) At the end of the tribulation period the beast will again be restrained there for 1000 years. Would you agree with these assertions? Could the pit be synonymous with hell or Hades? The passages below may be helpfull. Why does 2 Thess 2:6 refer to "what restains" while v. 7 refers to "who" restains "until He is taken out of the way"? This post is getting lengthy - perhaps we can take up the "with His saints vs. for His saints" issue in another thread. I shouldn't have raised the issue in this one. 2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Revelation 3:7 ¶And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; |
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5 | The Restrainer - Revisited! | 2 Thess 2:7 | Robert Nicholson | 35418 | ||
Hi Listener: I agree with your 1-5 observations. When know that the bottomless pit is not the lake of fire. When Christ comes to in judgement, Satan will be imprisoned for 1000 years Rev.20:7 However, at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ, satan will be loosed and go out to deceive the nations of the earth. In Rev. 20:9 we see the destruction of those who are deceived by him and satan or the devil cast into the lake of fire for ever and ever Rev. 20:10 Re: 2 Thess. 2: 5-7 I will quote the amplified version: Do you not recollect that when I was still with you, I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining him [from being revealed at this time]; it is so that he may be manifested (revealed) in his own [appointed] time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness (that hidden principle of rebellion against constituted authority) is already at work in the world, [but it is] restrained only until [3] he who restrains is taken out of the way. It would seem that the lawless one is held back until the positve force for righteousness is removed which would fit in with the idea of the Holy Spirit dwelling within the church or the bride of Christ. God Bless. Robert |
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6 | The Restrainer - Revisited! | 2 Thess 2:7 | Listener | 35564 | ||
Robert, Thanks for your thoughtfull response. I guess I'm having a little trouble following your train of thought. You seem to be agreeing that: 1) It is the antichrist that is being restrained. 2) The place of restraint is the abyss. Yet you maintain that it is the church/Holy Spirit that is doing the restraining? Please clarify. The Holy Spirit as the restrainer via the church seems inconsistent to me. The church is not present in the abyss, where the antichrist is restrained. Further, the picture in Revelation of the beast ascending from the pit when the key is given to a fallen angel seems unrelated to the church. Thanks, Listener |
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7 | The Restrainer - Revisited! | 2 Thess 2:7 | Robert Nicholson | 35581 | ||
Hi Listener: Many people have difficulty with my train of thought. Sorry. I need to clarify my thoughts. I believe that every person who trust Christ as saviour is indwelt by the Holy Spirit and during this time of grace acts as "the salt" of the earth. In other words as we approach the time when the man of Sin will be revealled, it is only God who holds back his evil forces by his Spirit in each member of the church. If we accept the pre-trib rapture the Church which is his body consisting of all true believers will be with Christ. Personally, I don't see the church which is his body on the earth after chp. 4 "when a door is open in heaven'. I do not believe that the beast is being restrained physically. However, if when this restraining influence is removed, than God will allow this wicked one (lawless one) to be revealled. Professing Christendom after the church is gone will be those who profess to be Christians and have never been born again will accept the beast because "God will send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie" that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. This is the beginning of the Great tribulation. In Rev. 6 we have the opening of the seal judgments upon the earth. In Rev. 7:3 we see that God is instructing them to "hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees until we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads" In the remainder of this chapter we find a remnant seal out of Israel in addition to a "great multitude which no man could number of all nations"V.9 In other words, despite the judgement which is coming upon the earth God is saving people who will be part to the earthly remanent which will go into the milleniel kingdom. In Rev. 8 we have seven trumpet judgments. These judgments are more intense than the 7 seals. We find here that he earth, the sea, the water and the solar heaven. These judgments are upon those which "ave not the seal of God in their foreheads" Chp. 9 v5 In Rev. 9 "we see a star fallen from heaven to the earth" This I believe is satan and in the first woe, he is given the key to the bottomless pit from which he releases the demons of judgement against those who have rejected God. This has nothing to do with the church which is a heavenly company with Christ. During the great triublation, God will judge those who have rejected him and find that even with the intensity of the judgment increasing "The rest of men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands..."Chp 9:20 In a general sense I believe that after the church is taken away, that their occuppation is a heavenly one along with the old testament saints who have died in faith. On the earth, there will be those saved primarily from Israel and from Gentile nations who have not rejected Christ and will survive the great tribulation and go into the earthly millenial Kingdom. The picture I have of the Millenium is of a heavenly company and an earthly company in which their will be communication and mutual worship of Christ. In the final eternal state, we know that there will be a new heaven and a new earth. Rev.22 Do I make any sense at all. Robert |
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8 | The Restrainer - Revisited! | 2 Thess 2:7 | Listener | 35730 | ||
Robert, You are as sensible and articulate as anyone I have heard defending pre-trib doctrines. I find some inconsistencies in all the ___-trib rapture theories, but it seems to me that the pre-trib is the most challenging to defend. I certainly don't have it all figured out, but I'm praying that I'll be faithfull to both watch and be ready. Come quickly Lord Jesus. Thanks, Listener |
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