Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | The Restrainer - Revisited! | 2 Thess 2:7 | Ray | 17520 | ||
Hi Tim, I know that you are writing CDBJ but I also have been studying this passage with you. I appreciate your work here. Because the man of lawlessness makes himself above every so called god and displays himself as being God he will be revealed and taken out of the way. But the fact remains that the hope of the Christian is that the Son of Man is to be revealed. He is coming again and we are looking for Him. It is because of this that I will not fail to capitalize the pronouns of verse six and the Restrainer of verse seven. The Restrainer will do so until the son of destruction will be taken out of the way, revealed, slain, and brought to an end by the appearance of His coming. I wonder why the Person of the Holy Spirit was chosen as the Restrainer. I would have you look at Matthew 24:36, "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father* alone."and "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah." I would think that the Father is the Restrainer. Compare Matthew with 2 Thess.2:6, "And you know what restrains Him* now,..." and "so that in His time He will be revealed." The * is for comparison. The Son of Man will be revealed. 2 Thess 2:14, "It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ." Tim, what I would disagree with you on then is number 2) of "What do we know for sure?" I am looking for the Son of Man not the son of destruction. Thanks again for your study, Later, Ray |
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2 | The Restrainer - Revisited! | 2 Thess 2:7 | Morant61 | 17525 | ||
Greetings Ray! I agree with you that the Father could be spoken of as well as the Holy Spirit. But, since I am a trinitarian (as you are too), I would be comfortable using any of the members of the Trinity here. I just think the Holy Spirit would be a little more appropriate since it is He through whom the Father seems to work most often in terms of actions or activities. But, either would be fine! However, concerning v. 6, I don't think that the 'revealing' can refer to Christ for two reasons. 1) First of all, v. 8 is clearing referring to the man of lawlessness being revealed after the restraining influence is gone. And, v. 3 refers to the time when the man of lawlessness will be revealed. It would seem to make sense that the same is being said in v. 6, since it is used twice in this passage with the man of lawlessness as the one being revealed. 2) Secondly, the grammar will not allow your interpretation. If I understood you correctly, you were saying v. 6 would read: "And you know what restrains Him* now,..." and "so that in His time He will be revealed." However, the Greek text says, "And now he/what holds back you know that he may be revealed in his own time". There is no 'Him' in the first clause at all. A smoother translation would be, "And now you know He (or what) is holding back that he may be revealed in his own time." To go your way would imply a self-restraint rather than a restraint being imposed upon someone else. Christ is mentioned in this passage, but His is an appearing and or coming, not a revealing. So, I would vote for both v. 6 and v. 8 being references to the 'revealing' of the man of lawlessness. Paul sure could have made it easier on us in this passage! Whew! :-) Thanks for jumping in Ray! You are more than welcome at any time! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | The Restrainer - Revisited! | 2 Thess 2:7 | Ray | 17562 | ||
Hi Tim, I believe that God is applying a lot of self-restraint. If you think that the son of destruction is being restrained perhaps you haven't been listening to today's news. 2 Thess 2:7, "For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work..." ONLY [THERE IS] ONE HOLDING [IT] BACK JUST NOW UNTIL OUT OF [THE] MIDST [WAY] HE IS GONE." Greek New Testament, UBS 4th edition, Nestle-Atland 26th edition. So God shows self-restraint and allows it to work until the lawless one is taken out of the midst, revealed, and slain. 2 Thess 2:6, "AND NOW THE ONE HOLDING [HIM] BACK YOU KNOW FOR HIM TO BE REVEALED IN HIS OWN TIME." I know the One holding back. And in His time He will be revealed. He would want to be revealed after the son of destruction displays himself as being God. I think that Colossians 3:1-7 is a good companion passage. "Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ , who is our Life*, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory. Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience, and in them you also once walked, when you were living in them." Verse 10,"...and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him--" Later, Ray |
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4 | The Restrainer - Revisited! | 2 Thess 2:7 | Morant61 | 17568 | ||
Greetings Ray! I think I'm confused now! According to 2 Thess. 2:7, it is the restrainer who it taken out of the midst. You seem to be saying that it is the man of lawlessness who is taken out of the midst. Please correct me if I am wrong! In the long run, I don't think this is a vital issue because the meaning of the passage is clear. The man of lawlessness will appear for a time, but everything he does is subject to God's sovereignty and he is destined for destruction. However, it is fun to speculate about the details which Paul doesn't make plain. :-) Since I know that you are interested in pronouns, may I point out that in both of your 2 Thess. quotes above, that the bracketed pronouns are not in the text! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | The Restrainer - Revisited! | 2 Thess 2:7 | Ray | 17593 | ||
Hi Tim, You may think that I am confused, but you at least know how I interpret the passage. I do believe that the mystery or the man of lawlessness will be taken out of the midst. (It or he). verse 6. And you know the One who restrains [him] now, for in His time He will be revealed. verse 7. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; there is only One holding [it] back just now until he (it) is removed. I am only interested in pronouns of Deity so the bracketed ones here I'm not concerned about. This study reminds me of another string of pronouns which makes one wonder who is being spoken of. Let me introduce a thread on Matthew 11:10 if you are interested. Later, Ray |
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6 | The Restrainer - Revisited! | 2 Thess 2:7 | Morant61 | 17617 | ||
Greetings Ray! I am always interested in good discussions my friend! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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