Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Triune gods began in babylon? | 1 Thess 5:23 | Julian Hawyah | 57317 | ||
The teaching of the trinity did indeed begin many years after the final books of the bible were written. One would think our Lord and Savior would have taught on the Trinity - but as the word says - not even Christ himself knew the time of his return: Makr 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. The trinity was propounded well after even Paul's ministry - but it wasn't until 325 A.D. that the counsel of Nicea that it was made a requirement to the 'church' or what the ruling body at that time came up with. I'd suggest looking into a book called: The Doctrine of the Trinity - Christianity's Self-Inflicted Wound There is a lot to be studied about this topic - but just remember that the Word of God is meant for us to believe and God would not give us a doctrine that even our minds could not comprehend - such as the proposed complexity of the trinity. If you'd like to ask me more or know anything else - please do. |
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2 | Triune gods began in babylon? | 1 Thess 5:23 | meusing | 57324 | ||
Paul KNEW that Jesus IS God. Phil 2:6 Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped or retained, 7 But stripped Himself [of all privileges and rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being. Rom 9:5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to flesh, He being God over all, blessed forever. Amen. [literal translation] Paul also knew that the Father was God : 1 Cor 15:24 After that comes the end (the completion), when He delivers over the kingdom to God the Father after rendering inoperative and abolishing every [other] rule and every authority and power. 25 For [Christ] must be King and reign until He has put all [His] enemies under His feet. [Ps. 110:1.] 26 The last enemy to be subdued and abolished is death. 27 For He [the Father] has put all things in subjection under His [Christ's] feet. But when it says, All things are put in subjection [under Him], it is evident that He [Himself] is excepted Who does the subjecting of all things to Him. [Ps. 8:6.] 28 However, when everything is subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will also subject Himself to [the Father] Who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all [be everything to everyone, supreme, the indwelling and controlling factor of life]. I suppose you will try to tellus that Paul did not belive that the Spirit of the Holy God is God. How does acknowledging that Jesus is Lord and God, that the Father is God and that the Holy Spririt is God be a 'self-inficted wound' . Well, I supose it would be to someone who does not believe that Jesus is LORD. But He is and Paul acknowledges the fact. |
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3 | Triune gods began in babylon? | 1 Thess 5:23 | Julian Hawyah | 57375 | ||
First off, I have love toward all our brethren and wish not to cause any contention between belivers. 2nd I do believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and God raised him from the dead - that's how you get born again Romans 10:9-10 Romans 9:5 shows that God blessed Christ. One need not switch the wording around, the same as in other places where it mentions that God blessed something or someone. Without our Savior, we would still be dead in our sins. And as I mentioned in the last posting, Christ is our Lord and Savior. Don't jump to conclusions and get all upset about things, say things that aren't being said - it doesn't profit if one person starts that. Jesus Christ was our perfect redeemer, a man, just as you wrote in Phil 2:7 He was born, God is his Father, he had all the rights, privileges that a son today would have as being born of someone great, but the thing was that he didn't brag about it, didn't try to intimidate people, but rather he became a servant, and lovingly did his Father's fully. Also from your quote on 1 Cor 15:27-28: ...But when it says, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that He [God] is excepted who does the subjecting of all things to him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him [Father] that put all things under him, so that God may be all in all Obviously the Father is God - but when God subdues even his son, Christ, unto himself - it shows that it is necessary for even Christ to be under the Father - or else God would not have said it. The afore-mentioned "Doctrine of the Trinity..." is showing in its title that the doctine was inrtoduced and elevated to a point where it is taking away from the greatness that God has shown in his Word, keeping things simple as the word declared them will be much more profitable for the believer. The book is written in a well manner it unfolds many things people are ignorant of. Here's some questions that must be answered if Jesus Christ is truly God, not the Son of God: #1) Jesus Christ was a man 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; yet God says in his Word that God is not a man, how can that be? Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: It could have just said that God would not ever lie - but it didn't. Yet if Christ is the son of God - a man, the one who died and paid the full price for the whole world's sins - then this fits perfectly with the rest of the Word #2) If Christ is God, then how could an eternal, everlasting God die? God cannot die, the creator who lives for all eternity. Yet it says in the Word that Jesus Christ did indeed die - and was buried- Christ himself spoke this verse: Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. When I have something confusing I tend to not like it, just as 1 Corinthians 14:33 says: For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace.. To try to make sense of God being the creator of heaven and earth - and God being spirit and being completely a man at the same time - and dying -yet being able to bring himself back from the dead when he was dead - praying to himself, and asking that not his will be done buy God's, and not knowing the time of Christ's return, and saying that the Father is greater than he: John 14:28 ...If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I John 4:24 God is a Spirit... He's either spirit or not, Jesus Christ was either dead or not, and if not dead then we are not saved, God is either greater than Jesus Christ or not, you read it, you decide. How much more fulfilling to see that Jesus Christ - God's only begotten son - walked a perfect walk doing always the will of his Father - and was the one who fulfilled all that was required to bring man back to God. Hebrews 4:15 ..but [Christ] was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. When you try to fit it in that it was God who walked perfectly - there is nothing to it for him - for God is perfect and in him is there no darkness at all. But for a man - Jesus Christ - to have fully accomplished what we needed in a redeemer - so see how perfectly he walked with the Father - that's amazing. Every situation he had to hold fast the word in his mind - to love - to know his Father's will - and to carry it out. Now that's a savior - one who has to endure the world - being able to have a choice - there's no controlling of posession when it comes to the true God - but Christ had to walk perfectly to be able to fully accomplish God's plan of salvation. |
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4 | Triune gods began in babylon? | 1 Thess 5:23 | meusing | 57410 | ||
Yes Julian, Jesus was tempted because although His is God He took upon Himself the form of a servant. Phil 2:6 Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped or retained, Phil 2:7 But stripped Himself [of all privileges and rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being. Phil 2:8 And after He had appeared in human form, He abased and humbled Himself [still further] and carried His obedience to the extreme of death, even the death of the cross! Jesus is Immanuel - God with us. John 1:1 IN THE beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself. [Isa. 9:6.] John 1:2 He was present originally with God. John 1:3 All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him was not even one thing made that has come into being. John 1:14 And the Word (Christ) became flesh (human, incarnate) and tabernacled (fixed His tent of flesh, lived awhile) among us; and we [actually] saw His glory (His honor, His majesty), such glory as an only begotten son receives from his father, full of grace (favor, loving-kindness) and truth. [Isa. 40:5.] Jesus has all the attributes of the Godhead in bodily form. Omnipotance -Ephesians 1:20-23 Omniscience John 2:24,25; 16:30; Colossians 2:2,3 Omnipresence Matthew 18:19,20; 28:19,20; Ephesians 1:23 Eternity of Being John 1:1; Michah 5:2: John 17:15 Imutabiblity Hebrews 13:8 Jesus admited He is the King of heaven. 1 Tim 1:17 Now to the King of eternity, incorruptible and immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever (to the ages of ages). Amen (so be it). Romans 5:9 clearly says that Jesus os God, blessed forever. Even A. T.Robertson, the leading Greek scholar of our time said : Who is over all, God blessed for ever (ho on epi panton theos eulogetos). A clear statement of the deity of Christ following the remark about his humanity. This is the natural and the obvious way of punctuating the sentence. To make a full stop after sarka (or colon) and start a new sentence for the doxology is very abrupt and awkward. See note on Act 20:28 and note on Tit 2:13 for Paul’s use of theos applied to Jesus Christ. how can just a man -creat all things Heb 1:10 -preserve all things Heb 1:3 -have the authority to forgive sins - Mark 2:5-11 -have the power of ressurection John 6:39,40,44. -have the power to transform Philippians 3:20,21. -have the authority to Judge - 2 Timothy 4:1 -and have the Authority to grant eternal life John 10:28; 17:1,2? One thing more Jesus must be worshiped as God by men and angels Matthew 14:33 John 5:22,23 Heb 1:6 Phillipians 2:9-11. |
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5 | Triune gods began in babylon? | 1 Thess 5:23 | Julian Hawyah | 57411 | ||
I have studied all of those verses in great detail and have come up with a differing view based on the rest of the clear principles in the word. You still did not answer my questions though. | ||||||
6 | Triune gods began in babylon? | 1 Thess 5:23 | John Reformed | 57452 | ||
Dar Julian, In my opinon, the burden of proof lies upon your shoulders. You have attacked an essential doctine of the faith and must respond to meusing's post. Your response leads one to wonder if you have perhaps dodged the questions. John Reformed |
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7 | Triune gods began in babylon? | 1 Thess 5:23 | Julian Hawyah | 57486 | ||
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: The term in Hebrew is one - singular - none else beside. If you want to read into it and say there are three - yet still one - go ahead. but the doctrine from God is that he is one. I believe people can twist that around in their mind to make it seem like '3 is 1' but that's impossible and confusing. You can't teach a child the trinity doctrine and have them understand it without having them break rules of language and logic. Three are not one in the same. Our Heavenly Father and his son Jesus Christ are one in purpose, not one in being. Jesus Christ said: John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. He (Jesus Christ) is standing in front of these people and saying these words. Simple. Jesus Christ didn't teach us to pray to himself in any way - rather to God-his Father (Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven..) He didn't pray to himself. Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? Jesus Christ didn't offer himself to himself - rahter God. John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. Jesus Christ was born - there is no word incarnate in the bible Plus Psalm 106:48 Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting: and let all the people say, Amen. Praise ye the LORD. God need not be born, and likewise God couldn't die if that verse is true. John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. Not his own will, but the Father's John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise Nothing of his own self. And to top it all off - a verse clear as day - that many people do not know or respect: 1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Who is God? The Father. That's what the Word says. His wonderful son, the Lord Jesus Christ is our Savior Most Christians today don't ever get the chance to be taught that God is One, not three, and that his Son Jesus Christ was born of God, man's perfect redeemer, and not God. It just get's forced on them - they are ridiculed and outcasts if they even look into the truth of Jesus Christ's nature. Most Christians today are not loving to someone who sees anything but the trinity. How ridiculous this has become - how far from God's plan and respect toward him he deserves. Without God's son - we'd be unsaved and without hope in this world. But without God - nothing would be. Glory to God - the Creator of heaven and earth. Praise and thanksgiving to his wonderful son, our Lord Christ Jesus - who did what no-other could do - and paid the price for our redemption. Julian The word of God began to fit wonderfully in my mind once the mis-conceptions of tradition and error were taken away from that which I was raised to believe. But confusion and lack of answers from the men - had me turn to the Word of God and led to a diligent study - letting the Word of God speak for itself and not makind. I suggest you do the same if this at all interests you, a knowledge of how to study the word rightly divided is necessary. See my post on that subject elsewhere on the forum. Understanding unclear verses in-light of clear verses is a key to this as well. God-Bless. |
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8 | Triune gods began in babylon? | 1 Thess 5:23 | John Reformed | 57489 | ||
Dear Julian, Deut 6:4 Historic Christianity does teach monotheism. God is one. I believe that the New Testament must interpet the Old. "...the New Testament must interpret the Old Testament because the Old Testament is the preliminary and fragmentary revelation. Its institutions are shadows of the reality to come. Its prophecies veiled promises of a salvation not yet revealed. But in the New Testament gospel of Jesus Christ, God's secret is out and His glory is unveiled. Here is God's final word "beyond which there is no more to be seen or experienced" R. Brinsmead. The above is a paradigm I agree with. Therefore John 1:14 must interpret Deut 6:4 Before I continue, I must ask if you have a problem with Brinsmead's rule and if so ...why? John |
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