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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | there's many denomination yet 1 spirit | Eph 5:1 | JRdoc | 61569 | ||
You Probably did not read the originals posts: The terms lalein glossei/glossais (to speak in a tongue/in tongues) that Paul uses so frequently in chapter 14 were commonly used in his day to describe pagan ecstatic speech. In the church at Corinth much of the tongues–speaking had taken on the form and flavor of those pagan ecstasies. Emotionalism all but neutralized their rational senses, and selfish exhibitionism was common, with everyone wanting to do and say his own thing at the same time (v. 26). Services were bedlam and chaos, with little worship and little edification taking place. It is an interpretive key to this chapter to note that in verses 2 and 4 tongue is singular (cf. vv. 13, 14, 19, 27), whereas in verse 5 Paul uses the plural tongues (cf. vv. 6, 18, 22, 23, 39). Apparently the apostle used the singular form to indicate the counterfeited gift and the plural to indicate the true. Recognizing that distinction may be the reason the King James translators supplied unknown before the singular. The singular is used of the false because gibberish is singular; it cannot be gibberishes. There are no kinds of pagan ecstatic speech; there are, however, kinds of languages in the true gift, for which the plural tongues is used. The only exception is in v. 27, where the singular is used to refer to a single man speaking a single genuine language. MacArthur, J. (1996, c1984). 1 Corinthians. Includes indexes. (1 Co 14:6). Chicago: Moody Press. |
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2 | there's many denomination yet 1 spirit | Eph 5:1 | Morant61 | 61619 | ||
Greetings JRdoc! Here are some comments that I made previously about this issue! *********************************************** It is not often that I disagree with Dr. MacArthur, but I do disagree with his view of 1 Cor. 14:14-17. If the singular "tongue" refers to a conterfeit gift, then why in 1 Cor. 14:27 does Paul give instruction about when and how to speak in a "tongue?" Was Paul saying that it was okay to engage in conterfeit gifts under certain conditions? The most likely explanation seems to be that when Paul is speaking of the gift in general, he uses the plural. However, when he is speaking of a particular utterance or manifestation of the gift, he uses the singular. It would be similar to us saying, "I speak languages" in general, but "I speak French" in particular. I do agree with MacArthur on this point though: The goal of all the gifts is to edify the Church. Uninterpreted tongues does not edify the Chruch; therefore, there are restrictions placed upon it. ********************************************** Simply put, there is not a single Scripture which says that a "tongue" is conterfeit while 'tongues' are genuine. This is simply an opinion presented as a fact. The Scriptural facts are found in what the Bible actually says about a 'tongue'. 1 Cor. 14:2 says that 'he who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God...'. 1 Cor. 14:4 says that 'he who speaks in a tongue edifies himself...'. The term 'edify' is also in 1 Cor. to refer to something which is beneficial and not harmful. 1 Cor. 14:13 says that 'Thefore, he who speaks in a tongue must pray that he may interpret'. I could go on, but there simply isn't any negative comment about about the use of a tongue other than it's misuse. Further, the context makes it clear that 'tongue' and 'tongues' are interchangable. Consider the following: 1) A 'tongue' and 'prophecy' are contrasted in 1 Cor. 14:4. 2) However, in the rest of the verses following, it is 'tongues' and 'prophecy' which are contrasted. 3) The point make about both a 'tongue' and 'tongues' is that uninterpreted they do not edify the body of Christ, whereas propehcy does. So, prophecy is to be preferred. 4) The command of 1 Cor. 14:13 is based upon this distinction between tongue/tongues and prophesy. 5) In this understanding, v. 27 is not an exception, but simply a continuation of the context. A 'tongue' refers to a speak spoken language, whereas 'tongues' refers to the spiritual gift in general. Is 'tongues' the greatest gift? No! Can it be abused? Yes! Can it be faked? Yes! But, every gift of God can be abused and/or faked! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | there's many denomination yet 1 spirit | Eph 5:1 | JRdoc | 61625 | ||
Well you may disagree with hi if you like--I seldom do as well, but do on at least 2 issues that come to mind..so I understand. Here are some other links that are excellent: http://www.the-highway.com/charismatic_index.html http://members.aol.com/twarren13/tongues.html http://mountainretreat.org/articles/giftoftongues.html http://members.aol.com/twarren10/articles2.html |
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4 | there's many denomination yet 1 spirit | Eph 5:1 | Morant61 | 61633 | ||
Greetings JRdoc! Thanks for your response my friend! I hope this doesn't sound rude, but rather than pointing to other web sites, would you respond with your thoughts on my exgesis of 1 Cor. 14? I'm very familiar with the various stands on spiritual gifts, but I'm more concerned with what the text actually says, not what someone else says! :-) So, specifically, I would ask of you: a) Which Bible verse says that a singular 'tongue' is conterfeit? b) Why does Paul restrict the number of speakers, but not forbid the use of a 'tongue' if indeed it is a conterfeit? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | there's many denomination yet 1 spirit | Eph 5:1 | JRdoc | 61675 | ||
You missed the WHOLE point. Some tongues were counterfeit and other genuine and the two are both spoken about in 1 Cor 14. Paul spoke of tongues passing in 1 Cor 13, but did not forbid the true speaking in other tongues---of course after the gif disappeared than....... An exegesis of 1 Cor 14 is very long and that is why I gave you the Web Sites. Plus, it appears you have MacArthur's exegesis anyway (which is what I assert is correct.) If not let me know and I can post it...it will be several pages. BYW I apologize for the multiple posting...browser problem. |
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6 | there's many denomination yet 1 spirit | Eph 5:1 | Morant61 | 61710 | ||
Greetings JRdoc! I've had posting problems before as well! :-) My particular favorite is losing a long post! I understand your point my friend, but the great thing about this forum is the interaction between positions. Rather than simply posting a position, we can interact with others about the weakness and /or strengths of a particular position (using Scripture of course). So, in particular, which verses in 1 Cor. 14 mention a counterfeit tongue? The words 'counterfeit' or 'false' or 'fake' never occur in the passage in relation to a 'tongue' or 'tongues' - or at all I don't believe. Nor, is a 'tongue' or 'tongues' spoken on in a negative sense except for two things: a) The misuse of the gift. b) An uninterpreted 'tongue' or 'tongues' was not understood and thus prophesy was to be preferred, unless there was an interpretation. But, nowhere does the passage speak of a 'false tongue'. In fact, look at v. 26: "What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church." If a 'tongue' is conterfeit, as you have advocated, then why does Paul list it as one of the things which must be done for the strengthening of the church? In my opinion, this is an example of eisgesis. Dr. MacArthur has a position of spiritual gifts which he wants to advocate and has read into this passage that which would support his view. So, how would you counter these points? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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