Results 1 - 4 of 4
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | xchngdlife | 22508 | ||
Johnny, Below is my conclusion in my last post. "In conclusion, when we are looking for new testament truth for the believer, we need to look according to scripture written after the cross. The tithing issue is never discussed after the cross, but as 2 cor 9:7 states we are to give freely and generously and with a smile on our face and hearts." My whole point is summed up in the last line. If you want to prove that tithing is not for the believer then why ask to see if Jesus said that we should do it? This is my point! The new covenant did not begin until after the cross, not at the beginning of the gospels. Therefore, even if those that you are discussing this issue on this site come up with a verse where Jesus teaches us to tithe, we must consider wether it is new covenant or old. Why? Because, again, the cross is the dividing line of the old and the new. As you have stated before---we are not under the law of Moses(old covenant) but under the law of grace(New covenant) Could you in your reponse answer this question? Where do you believe the new covenant begins? Thank you for being patient with me! Forgiven forever, Michael |
||||||
2 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22595 | ||
Michael Before we start this discussion let me put some clarifications. 1. In your own understanding, what is tithe for you. It is a ten percent of your income (net/gross)? 2. Or it is the same as love offering that was mentioned in the new testament. If your answer is it is the 10 ten percent of your income, then I will try to prove (with scriptures supporting it) to you that this teaching is different from the teaching of Jesus Christ. Just to clear my stand, I mentioned it many times when I have a discussion regading tithes, that giving is not wrong but there is no required amount it is not 10 percent or 20 percent of your income, but what porposes of your heart because God love a cheerful giver. In your second question. Again let me ask some clarifications Are you talking of "New Testament" or "NEW COVENANT" To make sure that we both agree, on which we are going to Begin our discussion. TESTAMENT: occurs twelve times in the New Testament (Heb 9:15, etc.) as the rendering of the Gr. diatheke, which is twenty times rendered "covenant" in the Authorized Version, and always so in the Revised Version. The Vulgate translates incorrectly by testamentum, whence the names "Old" and "New Testament," by which we now designate the two sections into which the Bible is divided. COVENANT: a contract or agreement between two parties. In the Old Testament the Hebrew word berith is always thus translated. Berith is derived from a root which means "to cut," and hence a covenant is a "cutting," with reference to the cutting or dividing of animals into two parts, and the contracting parties passing between them, in making a covenant (Ge 15:1-21; Jer 34:18-19). Michael, dont think that I am direct it to the point, I want to make sure that we both agree on which we are going to begin our discussion. Thanks also for your patient. God Bless, Johnny |
||||||
3 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | xchngdlife | 22618 | ||
Johnny, Thanks for your response. Let me begin by saying that I believe that we are no longer under law, but under a new dispensation---grace. Furthermore, I do believe tithing was part of the mosaic law and also before the law was established(Abraham tithed to Melchizedek). We are now taught to give freely according to 2 Cor 8-9. So, I believe we are together on the issue of giving. As far as my 2nd question: I understand that the gr word diatheke can be translated as both testament or covenant and are basically synoyms. Either of which could be used in Matt. 26:28; Mark 14:24; Luke 22:20; 1 cor. 11:25; 2 cor. 3:6; Heb. 8:8,13; 12:24. All of these passages speak of Gods new plan through Jesus. Now I realize that the Words "New Testament" are on a blank white piece of paper right before Matt. chapter 1. What we must realize is that this is an addition made by our friendly greek scholars to make a division clear. Just as the punctuation, chapters and verses have been submitted into the text for clarity we have labeled Matt. thru Rev. as the New Testament. As a result, many new and older christians have mistakenly concluded that if its in one of the 4 gospels then it must pertain to me as a believer. Nothing could be further from the truth. Have you ever been reading in one of the gospels and trying to interpret it through "grace glasses" and found yourself trying to reconcile what Christ said and what the epistles say. For example, Jesus said, "Matt 6:14- For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. Matt 6:15- But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions. In Eph 4:32 Paul states,"Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you". When you look at these two vs. there is an unmistakable contradiction. One says if you don't forgive then as a result your father will not forgive you. Think about that for a sec, could that be a truth under grace? By no means! We have been forgiven (past tense) and sanctified by that blood. Now on the other side, we have Paul saying that we should forgive others because Christ has forgiven you. This is because we have a true dividing line that seperates these teachings and that is the cross. When I am defending free will giving I do not refer to the gospels because it is the teachings after the cross that I apply to my life. This understanding of law and grace has really free me from confusion and a lack of understanding of who I have become in Christ. Hope this helps, Michael |
||||||
4 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22623 | ||
Michael, You stated this. "When I am defending free will giving I do not refer to the gospels because it is the teachings after the cross that I apply to my life. This understanding of law and grace has really free me from confusion and a lack of understanding of who I have become in Christ." You are right! when are the one who give there is no problem, if you can give more that 10 or 20 percent of your income to God and it is a purposes of you heart God will be happy for that. But what if you are the one who requires you people to give the 10 percent of thier income? We have a problem here. I think we have to know the guidelines of what Jesus want us to do. Mt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. If we read that passages carefully, Jesus says "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!" because they are the one who are very strick to collect tihes. It is the blame is for them. So if the pastors required people to give 10 percent of their income to the church, then that pastors is the same of that scribes and pharisees! Because we all know that the teaching of Jesus Christ on guidelines of giving are more love offering not to required people to give thier ten percent. You also mentioned this:"I do believe tithing was part of the mosaic law and also before the law was established(Abraham tithed to Melchizedek)." Actually I do believed that if this happened in the time of New Testament it will not tolerated. If we read that verse from Ge 14:17, Ge 14:17 ΒΆ And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's dale. Ge 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. Ge 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: Ge 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. I dont think Jesus Christ will tolerated anyone to slaughter any person good or bad and took thier goods and give the tithe to God. Thank you, and God bless, Johnny |
||||||