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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | 2 corn. 4:4 the god of this world hath b | 2 Cor 4:1 | matronsgt13 | 135924 | ||
2 corn. the god of this world hath blinded. I will stop there. my question is this. who is the god of this world, and who has he blinded. | ||||||
2 | 2 corn. 4:4 the god of this world hath b | 2 Cor 4:1 | pcdarcan | 136011 | ||
Part 1 - "exceedingly unlikely" - but not definitive and here's why: "Here is what Clarke says about this question in his commentary:" Let me go line by line and decipher what Clarke is saying and where I and many others disagree about his conclusion. (I believe many will find this interesting... its a long read, but I think you'll enjoy the scriptural points.) Capital letter stands for Direct quote from Clarke Lower-case stands for restatement of Clarke's quote for clarify or counterpoint (if applicable) A. "I must own I feel considerable reluctance to assign the epithet, The God, to Satan;" a. Clarke is reluctant to call Satan "the god" of this world" (2 Cor 4:4). B. "and were there not a rooted prejudice in favor of the common opinion," b. Rooted prejudice? - strange way of saying 'many believe Satan to be the god of this world' and they do this based on the Bible, just look at the posts in this forum using scriptures to back up their reason. Interesting that a synonym of prejudice is "narrow-mindedness". It sounds like Clarke is using this phrase "rooted prejudice" in a derogatory sense - both judgemental and condescending. C. "the contrary might be well vindicated, viz. that by the God of this world the supreme Being is meant," c. Note how Clarke goes from "the god of this world" small "g" in every Bible translation I have ever opened, to Capital "G" in his comment "God of this world" (that's not how Bible translators render the case of "g"). D. "who in his judgment gave over the minds of the unbelieving Jews to spiritual darkness, so that destruction came upon them to the uttermost." d. And, Jesus showed it was their hearts (their motivation) that led to this judgement in Matthew 15:7,8 (New International Verions) "You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: "'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me'". E. "Satan, it is true, has said that the kingdoms of the world and their glory are his, and that he gives them to whomsoever he will; Mat_4:8, Mat_4:9. But has God ever said so?" e. Absolutely. The Almighty God - who is the author of the Bible - inspired his secretary Matthew to pen this account and God says so. How do we know? Don't forget, Jesus was in a perfect position to contractict Satan and set things right if Satan was lieing about possessing the kingdoms of this world and their glory. Additionally, this temptation makes no sense unless Satan possesses the kingdoms of this world. Finally, Clarke only partly quotes Matthew 4:9! ... and leaves out the "condition" that Satan sets before Jesus for giving him the kingdoms of this earth, namely: "If you fall down and do an act of worhip to me...". That sounds like something "the god of this world" would say, 'if only you would worship me'. (Please see my recent post about the internal evidence in Corinthians which shows Satan to be 'the god of this world' - posted Wed 10/27/04, 12:45pm in response to the topic: 2 Cor 4:4.) F. "and are we to take this assertion of the boasting devil and father of lies for truth? Certainly not." f. Why not? Jesus did, for he didn't refute or contest Satan about this matter one bit *and* you can be sure he would have if Satan was lying! Instead, Jesus redirected worship from 'the god of this world' to Almighty God. Mattew 4:10 (New International Version) "Jesus said to him, 'Away from me Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord God, and serve him only.' Yes, Jesus' response - alone - should clear up any confusion about whether Satan is "the god of this world". G. "We are not willing to attribute the blinding of men’s minds to God," g. And, rightfully so. Jesus is the 'light of the world' (John 1:9); why would his Father go around blinding innocent people's minds. H. "because we sometimes forget that he is the God of justice," h. Never. That's one of his 4 main attributes: Love, Justice, Wisdom and Power. I. "and may in judgment remove mercies from those that abuse them;" i. Yes, from "those that abuse them". Many of the Corinthians were practicers of wickedness (abusing God's mercy if you will) "before" becoming Christians (idolaters, drunkards, prostitutes, homosexauls, etc.) - I don't believe the Creator blinded their minds because of these wicked practices and abuse of his mercy. How do we know? They responded to the gospel and ceased practicing these: "And that is what some of you were [practicing]." Please compare 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11a. J. "but this is repeatedly attributed to him in the Bible," j. But, what is the context? Read on... K. "and the expression before us" k. that would be Clarke's expression "[God] may in judgement remove mercies from those that abuse them;" |
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3 | 2 corn. 4:4 the god of this world hath b | 2 Cor 4:1 | pcdarcan | 136012 | ||
Part 2 - "exceedingly unlikely" - but not definitive and here's why: L. "is quite a parallel to the following, Isa_6:9 : Go and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Make the Heart of this People Fat, and Make their Ears Heavy, and Shut their Eyes; Lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, etc." l. Isaiah 6:9 is a prophecy of how the Jews predominantly would react to Jesus, but it also had a fulfillment in Isaiah's day. Let's go back to the initial use of this in Isaiah's time. We read in Isaiah 6:8-10 (New International Version) "Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, 'Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?' And I [Isaiah] said, 'Here am I. Send me!' He [God] said, 'Go and tell this people: 'Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.' Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise, they may see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed.' Then I said, 'For how long, O Lord?' And he answered: 'Until the cities lie ruined and without inhabitant'." Isaiah didn't make their hearts unresponsive miraclously. The Jews got so turned off by his preaching that they allowed their hearts to be hardened and then they received God's judgement. Although, they had the opportunity "to understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed" as the scripture states. M. "And see the parallel places, Mat_13:14, Mat_13:15; Mar_4:12; Joh_12:40; and particularly Rom_11:8-10 : God Hath Given Them the Spirit of Slumber, Eyes that they Should not See, and Ears that they Should not Hear; let their Eyes be Darkened, etc. Now all this is spoken of the same people, in the same circumstances of wilful rebellion and obstinate unbelief; and the great God of heaven and earth is he who judicially blinds their eyes; makes their hearts fat, i.e. stupid; gives them the spirit of slumber: and bows down their back, etc. On these very grounds it is exceedingly likely that the apostle means the true God by the words the god of this world. m. In each case, the context of these quotes form Isaiah reveals that the unbelieving Israelites (Jews) are the focal point of the fulfillment of this prophecy; keep in mind that individually, some Jews responded to the good news. Perhaps the most famous being the Apostle Paul himself and note what he says about God's mercy in 1 Timothy 1:13: (New International Version) "Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted with ignorance and unbelief." Similarly, God is looking for opportunities to open every person's eyes and would never "blind the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel" (2 Cor 4:4) Lastly, note the context of 2 Cor 4:4. Early in Paul's letter in 2 Cor 2:11, he uses Satan's name and gives a warning 'not to be outwitted or unaware of his schemes'. Later, Paul would reference Satan again, but by other labels. Seven paragraphs later... "The god of this age" (2 Cor 4:4) is described as one who "has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel". And still later... "The serpent", is described by Paul in 2 Cor 11:3 as a 'deceiver', 'cunning', 'misleading people's minds' ("your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ"). Paul's very similar "descriptions" of "Satan", "the god of this age", and "the serpent" would lead one to the conclusion that they are all one and the same - known and exposed by different labels (but similar tactics) throughout Biblical history, down to Eve. I believe Mr. Clarke overlooks this and other supporting Bible verses in favour of what I perceive is a misapplication of Isaiah 6:9. No ill-will intended on Clarke's part, I trust. I hope this helps. |
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4 | 2 corn. 4:4 the god of this world hath b | 2 Cor 4:1 | srbaegon | 137003 | ||
Hello pcdarcan, l. This does not contradict that God hardens whom He will (Rom 9). m. But 2 Thess 2:11 says that God will cause people to believe a lie. You said: "God is looking for opportunities to open every person's eyes" Chapter and verse please. Steve |
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5 | 2 corn. 4:4 the god of this world hath b | 2 Cor 4:1 | pcdarcan | 137012 | ||
God doesn't arbitrarily harden anyone's heart; I believe you are taking this application directed to the unbelieving Jewish leaders and literally applying this. A person hardens their own heart toward God (like the unreceptive Jews) and the result is the same. Due to God's requirements and their lack of recongition of his Son and even their outward expressions of enmity with God results in a hardened heart. God isn't going to change their heart condition miraculously - he allows it to be hardened, if that is their choice. However, anyone can turn around and get their sins blotted out. "Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord" - Acts 3:19 (NIV). [Question from poster] You said: "God is looking for opportunities to open every person's eyes" Chapter and verse please. Answer: Acts 10:34 and 2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." God's desire is simple: for "everyone to come to repentance". |
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6 | 2 corn. 4:4 the god of this world hath b | 2 Cor 4:1 | srbaegon | 137043 | ||
Hello pcdarcan, "God doesn't arbitrarily harden anyone's heart..." I never said he did. Two verses concerning hardening: Ex 4:21 (ESV) And the Lord said to Moses, "When you go back to Egypt, see that you do before Pharaoh all the miracles that I have put in your power. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go." 2 Thess 2:11-12 (ESV) Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, [12] in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. In both cases God is actively hardening. There's no getting around it. "God's desire is simple: for 'everyone to come to repentance'." And yet the context of 2 Peter 3:9 is to believers. Steve |
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7 | 2 corn. 4:4 the god of this world hath b | 2 Cor 4:1 | pcdarcan | 137048 | ||
These scriptures don't support the notion that 2 Cor 4:4 pertains to God Almighty. The scriptural evidence that I have supplied in these posts is overwhelmingly in support of Satan being "the god of this world". Not sure why anyone would try to ignore this fact, Paul certainly didn't. On your comment about 2 Pet 3:9, aren't believers already saved? I don't agree with your accessment about the context of 2 Pet 3:9 - its just another example of pieces of the puzzle that just don't fit. |
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8 | 2 corn. 4:4 the god of this world hath b | 2 Cor 4:1 | srbaegon | 137049 | ||
Hello pcdarcan, "These scriptures don't support the notion that 2 Cor 4:4 pertains to God Almighty." Why not? You do not give a reason. Of course believers are already saved, but the verse says that God wants all to come to repentance. There's a difference between repentance and salvation. They don't equate. Steve |
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9 | 2 corn. 4:4 the god of this world hath b | 2 Cor 4:1 | pcdarcan | 137052 | ||
I do believe that you are going to any extent to not except the fact that Satan is "the god of this world". You already acknowledged in your other post dealing with the rebuttal to Clarke's commentary, that Clarke was wrong on some of his conclusions - that's what you posted. Clarke doesn't sound like a go-to guy for an understanding of 2 Cor 4:4. I'll let the other readers decide from the many posts whether the Bible supports Satan as being "the god of this world", because I know I'm not going to convince you. |
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10 | 2 corn. 4:4 the god of this world hath b | 2 Cor 4:1 | srbaegon | 137056 | ||
Hello pcdarcan, Hank is correct about a little inductive reasoning. The best explanation for "the god of this world" to be Satan is the paragraph itself. The comparison of light (God; Jesus Christ) to the blinding causes me to say it is Satan. The reason I kept leading you on was because you were stuck on how great your exegesis and reasoning was. Steve |
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11 | 2 corn. 4:4 the god of this world hath b | 2 Cor 4:1 | pcdarcan | 137058 | ||
So, you weren't being entirely "honest" then Steve, were you? Not to mention being "judgemental" of my sincere replies that took some time to research and publish. Seems like "repentance" for your dishonesty and judging of another is in order to qualify for "salvation"; thankfully, there's still time 2 Pet 3:9 ;) |
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12 | 2 corn. 4:4 the god of this world hath b | 2 Cor 4:1 | Hank | 137059 | ||
pcdarcan - Lay off Steve! Ad hominem attacks are not permitted. Look at your post to Steve. Who's being judgmental and who is setting the terms for his "qualifying" for salvation? Retract your post or I will report you for abuse of this Forum's guidelines! We don't play these kinds of games. --Hank | ||||||
13 | 2 corn. 4:4 the god of this world hath b | 2 Cor 4:1 | pcdarcan | 137065 | ||
Hank, why are you supporting what Steve did? He was dishonest and you know it! That is in direct violation of the Lockman Foundation. And, did you not read what he said about my post? Was that not judgemental? - Ad hominem attacks are not permitted. If you report me, I'll report Steve and you for supporting him. Remember, its all documented in these posts what "he" and now, "you" said. |
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