Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | When does one receive the Holy Spirit? | 2 Cor 1:22 | Searching Gods Heart | 183796 | ||
When does one receive the Holy Spirit? At what point? Baptisim, Faith? | ||||||
2 | When does one receive the Holy Spirit? | 2 Cor 1:22 | jonp | 183800 | ||
Hi The work of the Holy Spirit commences in us before we become Christians. We are elect according to the foreknowledge of God through the setting apart work of the Holy Spirit to obedience and the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus (1 Peter 1.2). But we can only be said to have received the Holy Spirit when we truly believe. At that moment we become His, and if any man has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His (Romans 8.9). At that point we are drenched in the Spirit into the body of Christ (whether we are baptised in water or not) - 1 Corinthians 12.12-13). From then on we can experience the working of the Spirit in our lives in different ways. He gives His gifts as He wills (1 Corinthians 12.11). And by looking to Christ and walking with Him we can drink of the Spirit and thus be 'filled with the Spirit' (Ephesians 5.18; John 7.37-39). In order to maintain this we must walk step by step with the Spirit, crucifying the flesh with its affections and desires (Galatians 5.24-25). How full we are will depend on how close our walk with Christ. In the early days of the church everyone who believed was immeduately baptised with water. The message was 'believe and be baptised'. Now that baptism does not occur at the time of believing it ceases to be the time at which the Spirit is received. Although that being said it can result in spiritual blessing through the Holy Spirit. | ||||||
3 | When does one receive the Holy Spirit? | 2 Cor 1:22 | Searching Gods Heart | 183833 | ||
Good Morning. Thanks for the responses. I want to clarify that I am not judging people or their belief. Doc, I am just a bit concerned that so many people are not “held accountable” to their actions or beliefs. Moreover, I am at peace knowing that our Lord will Judge all in His time. I am just saddened that there are many that are/may be blinded by false belief/doctrine. I do, however, believe that one may test a person’s faith in regards to staying in step with the spirit (Gal 5:22). Life and doctrine (1 Tim 4:16). I know that Paul was instructing Timothy, but if we are obeying Christ’s’ commands, spreading the Word, then this applies to us as well. Jnop. Thanks for your input. I do agree with your advice, however that question in my mind is: What is the point of obtaining that Seal? For example, getting a stamp when traveling abroad, in your passport. If I did not travel to Germany, then I can’t get the German stamp, but I say that I traveled to Germany. What proves that I did go… my word or belief that I did or that stamp? Similarly, someone says that they are a Christian, how can one have assurance that they are believers? For example, “I’m a Christian but I don’t believe in Baptism”. Maybe I am confused with what the commands are. Mark 16: 15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: Or just belief is fine? Even the demons believe and shutter. James 2:18-20. I will continue to study this and if you have any other advice, suggestions, books to dig into, I would appreciate it so much. I want to really be concrete in my own faith that, as has been stated: Not to fall into just a few lines of scripture(s). I have searched many places of worship and have been in many conversations that seem to be different in structure/beliefs. Ephesians 4:1As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. Although, we have to look at all words that God has given us, I guess I am concerned that so many are just living on a few “parts” of scripture. Thanks again, I am grateful for the responses and food for study. |
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4 | When does one receive the Holy Spirit? | 2 Cor 1:22 | jonp | 183840 | ||
Hi The seal of the Spirit is the evidence that a person is a Christian. But that does not mean that I can judge whether another is a Christian. 'There is One that judges'. It is not for me to decide whether a person has received the Holy Spirit. Some give a very good appearance of having received the Holy Spirit and the fall away. Others seem almost untouched, but the seed is growing secretly, and gradually it flowers. Such final judgments must be left to God. The point about the seal is that it is the guarantee until the day of redemption (Ephesians 4.30) when the Buyer comes to claim His own. Salvation is through faith alone. Nothing else is required. But the faith must be genuine. Intellectual belief is not enough. There must be a genuine response of the heart. For if the Holy Spirit has been at work that will inevitably follow. Remember the people in John 2.23-24. They 'believed', but Jesus did not trust Himself to them because He knew their hearts. Literally 'He did not believe Himself unto them'. That is what saving faith is, it is 'believing yourself unto Christ' so that He might believe Himself unto you. This is often expressed in the Greek by using 'believe unto (pisteuo eis) rather than 'believe in' (pisteuo en) although the distinction does not hold in every case. For in the end Jesus did not say 'by their faith you shall know them'. He said 'by their fruits you shall know them'. For once the Holy Spirit has been received, the fruit of the Spirit must eventually result (Galatians 5.22). You will find some 'at length' articles on the Holy Spirit at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/4027/. You are of course right that some continue to live just on a verse here and a verse there. That is fine for the young Christian. But the mature Christian should be seeing the word of God together as a whole. They should be eating solid meat, not just milk (Hebrews 5.12-14; 1 Corinthians 3.1-3). And that involves 'hard work'. That is why godly men write commentaries in order to pass on the fruits of their own studies. See http://www.geocities.com/petepartington/ for some free up to date Bible commentaries Best wishes jonp | ||||||
5 | When does one receive the Holy Spirit? | 2 Cor 1:22 | DocTrinsograce | 183848 | ||
Dear Jon, The internal reality is always manifest in observable externalities. Indeed, these are the means by which we judge ourselves (1 Corinthians 11:31; 2 Corinthians 13:5)! Feelings are utterly misleading. The Scriptures no nothing of a mystical, ethereal, insubstantial, unmeasurable faith. The gospel -- the true gospel -- changes lives! This is why the Scripture gives us so many characteristics of what the lost look like, what the saved look like, what hypocrites look like, disciples look like, what elders look like, what pastors and teachers look like, what false teachers look like, what godly older men look like, what godly younger men look like, etc. etc. So you say on the one hand that it is not possible to discern the effects of salvation, and then on the other you say that the fruit of the Spirit will eventually result. I am constrained to ask, therefore, are the items in the list in Galatians 5:22-23 ("love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control" ) really only invisible/internal? Aren't they every bit as visible as the items in the previous list in vv19-21 ("sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies")? What am I missing in what you are trying to say? In Him, Doc "The testimony of an enlightened conscience, judging by the Word of God, and deciding in our favour, that by His grace we have been enabled to take up the 'yoke of Christ,' is in some respects a more satisfactory evidence that we are His and He is ours, than if an angel were sent from Heaven to tell us that our names are written in the book of life." --John Newton "The more these visible exercises of grace are renewed, the more certain you will be. The more frequently these actings are renewed, the more abiding and confirmed your assurance will be. A man that has been assured of such visible exercises of grace, may quickly after be in doubt, whether he was not mistaken. But when such actings are renewed again and again, he grows more settled and established about his good state. If a man see a good thing once, that makes it sure: but if afterwards he feared he was deceived, when he comes to see it again, he is more sure he was not mistaken." --Solomon Stoddard "Nothing deserves the name religion that falls short of a remarkable change of disposition, created in the heart by the Holy Spirit, and showing itself in unselfish love for the things of God and in a burning desire for Christian conduct for all men." --Jonathan Edwards "Frames and feelings are but evanescent, and Satan may be the inspirer of them. The Scriptural method for obtaining assurance is for us to prayerfully and impartially examine and test ourselves by the Word, to see whether or not we bear in ourselves those marks by which God’s children are described and may be identified: such as mourning over sin, hungering after righteousness, grieving over unbelief, longing for conformity to Christ’s image, separation from the world, walking in the way of God’s commandments, distrust of self, praying daily for Divine grace." --A. W. Pink "It has been given to you [the believer] as an opportunity for you to have a ministry in which you witness, you demonstrate a changed life, a heart at peace, the radiant joy of fellowship with a living Lord on your face, and love pouring out of your heart to those who, like you, have struggled and lost frequently in the rat race of life." --Ray C. Stedman "Our deeds are not the basis of our salvation, they are the evidence of our salvation. They are not foundation, they are demonstration." --John Piper "James 2:17 says that 'faith, if it hath not works, is dead.' An unfortunate legacy of modern evangelism is that one's assurance of salvation is attached to a decision. Biblically, however, assurance has nothing to do with the past; it's related to what your life is like right now. Jesus said, 'If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed' (John 8:31 ). Evidence of salvation is always present in a true believer." --John MacArthur |
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6 | When does one receive the Holy Spirit? | 2 Cor 1:22 | jonp | 183870 | ||
Dear Doc. As I was replying to a question put to me about the seal of the Spirit that was what I was emphasising. While the fruit of the Spirit is certainly the result of the Spirit's indwelling it is not in my view directly what the seal of the Spirit has in mind. The seal of the Spirit has in mind security and confidence resulting from Christs work within. I could not agree more that this must result in genuine fruit, as in fact I did mention. But I am conscious also that that fruit often takes time to grow. First the blade, then the ear, then the full corn in the ear (Mark 4.28). As I am sure you are fully aware it may take time for a person's conversion to become obvious to others. The 'old man' does not release his hold willingly. And some have problems to battle with of which others are unaware. I am reminded of the poem - Judge not. The workings of His mind and of his heart you cannot see. What seems to your dull eyes a stain In God's pure eyes may only be A scar won on some battle field Where you would only faint and yield. That look, that air, that frets your sight May be a token that below That soul is closed in deadly fight With some infernal, fiery foe Whose look would scorch your smiling grace And send you shuddering on your face. As you would no doubt rightly point out. Jesus said, 'Why do you call Me "Lord, Lord" and do not do the things that I say?' (Luke 6.46). 'Not everyone who says to Me "Lord, Lord" will enter the Kingly Rule of Heaven, but those who do the will of My Father Who is in Heaven' (Matthew 7.21). This too is the RESULT of the seal of the Spirit in the heart. But in my view the seal of the Spirit is first given in the inner heart. 'The firm foundation of God stands sure, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His' although of course it is immediately followed by 'Let every one who names the Name of the Lord depart from iniquity' (2 Timothy 2.19). But even that is initially an awareness of what must be, rather than it immediately having become an actuality in practise (although of course eventually it must be). It is the anointing within that will lead us into truth (1 John 2.20, 27). I am ever aware that the young Christian can begin to feel that he is just not coming up to scratch. He begins to fear that perhaps he has not been 'saved' after all. Thus he needs to be aware of the seal within him that can give him assurance. 'Though I am not what I should be, I thank God that I am not what I was, for I now know that I have Christ within me, and I therefore know what I should be, and that is what I intend to be'. It is God Who will work within him of His good pleasure (Philippians 2.13). I am sure you will have noted my later stress on the fact that it is 'by their fruits that they will be known'. But those fruits are the sign to men, not the divine seal. I am not quite sure how you gathered from my words that I did not think it was possible to discern the effects of salvation. Eventually it inevitably is, and I thought that I had made that quite clear. But what I stressed was that we are not qualified to judge the genuineness of those effects. We are not infallible judges. In the end we must leave that to the One Who judges rightly (Romans 14.10-13). You may add to your quotes the words of George Whitefield, 'I care not a jot for that man's religion whose very dog and cat are not the better for it'. But it may take time for it to be worked out. Best wishes Jon |
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7 | When does one receive the Holy Spirit? | 2 Cor 1:22 | DocTrinsograce | 183899 | ||
Dear Jon, Thank you for clarifying. In America we have a terrible malady. We rush to assure the man who walks the isle, joins a church, utters a prewritten prayer, or is baptized that he may be certain of his salvation. We spend all kinds of effort assuaging guilt. We render the gospel palatable to the world, by guaranteeing the benefits, and hiding the cost. We relegate perseverance to those who want the optional "deeper walk." We minimize sin where ever possible, and when its not possible, then we assure people that God is love. We relish victory, but we rarely speak of repentance. We talk a lot about end times, but never about the call to holiness. We carefully avoid teaching about repentance, confession, turning from sin to God, contrition, or impending judgment. Ours is a world of cheap grace and easy believism. Hence my concern. Thank you, again, for taking the time to explain. In Him, Doc "A living faith is a working faith (James 2:17). Two things are plainly and uniformly taught throughout the New Testament. Justification is by faith, and not by works, (Romans 4, etc.). Yet, such justifying faith is a living, operative, fruitful faith, evidencing itself by obedience to the commands of God (1 John 2:4, etc.). Christ gave Himself for us that 'He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works' (Titus 2:14). This greatly needs emphasizing today and pressing repeatedly upon those professing to be believers in the Lord Jesus, for multitudes of these have a name to live, but 'art dead' (Rev. 3:1). Their faith is not that of God's elect (Titus 1:1), but nothing better or different than that which the demons have (James 2:19)." --A. W. Pink |
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8 | When does one receive the Holy Spirit? | 2 Cor 1:22 | stjohn | 183903 | ||
Greetings Doc; I really appreciate your message. I agree, it is so very important for the mature believer to take and keep that in there heart. If I may though, I would like to add. For the broken, lost world, drowning in sin, our words should be a life line of mercy and grace. To them that think God is angry, to them that think that they are to filthy for God to look at them, to them we say... You cant out sin God! thanks Doc; with all respect stj |
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