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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | For Ray! :-) | 1 Cor 8:5 | Morant61 | 137642 | ||
Greetings Ray! You wrote: ***************************************** Hi Tim, Like I said, I hesitate to continue this long thread. But lets go to a different thread and verse and discuss this more. 1) You have said that "Scripture is clear that there are many things that are called gods, but there is only one god!" Perhaps this is the verse where we should start our new thread. You are saying that there are many things that are called gods, but there is only one actual, true god. That is what I disagree with. 2) You have said here that God tells us that there is 'no other god'. :-) But that is not the case. You yourself have told us that the Greek says that "there is no other gods". Lets go to 1 Cor 8:5 or 6 and discuss it there, O.K.? From the heart, Ray **************************************** I really didn't want to continue this topic, but there were a couple of things you said that I just had to ask about. :-) You said: "You have said here that God tells us that there is 'no other god'. :-) But that is not the case." How can you say that my friend? :-) Here are the verses: Is. 43:10 - "'You are my witnesses,' declares the LORD, 'and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me." This verse is quite clear that no god existed prior to God and that none will come into existence after Him. Is. 44:6 - "This is what the LORD says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God." This verse clearly says that apart from God there is no god. Is. 44:8 - "'Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.'" This verse ask if there is any god besides God and answers 'No!' Is. 45:5 - " I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me." Is. 45:14b - "....Surely God is with you, and there is no other; there is no other god." Is. 45:18b - "...I am the LORD, and there is no other." Is. 45:21 - "Declare what is to be, present it— let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me. 22 'Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.'" Is. 46:9 - "Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me." So, in light of all of these verses, how can you say that it is no so that there is no other god but God? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | For Ray! :-) | 1 Cor 8:5 | Ray | 137896 | ||
Hi Tim, I don't know how this post snuck by us without being answered, but I am happy to be able to talk with you once more on the subject. We've already had a good discussion on this verse I see. We both have looked at John 1:1,2 and see it as correctly interpretted as saying that the Word was God, not a god. This One [He,the Son, the only begotten God] was in the beginning with God. We have considered the Greek and realize that it does not capitalize. But I would have you comitted to an understanding of capitalization in the English language. And as I have said in regards to John 1:1, it is important to distinguish between "god" and "God". I would say that God is not a god; but rather, that He is God. 1) Scripture tells us that there are indeed many lords and many gods, but there is only one God, one Lord, one Spirit. 2) Deuteronomy 4:35, "To you it was shown that you might know that the (Lord), He is God; there is no other besides **Him." Deuteronomy 5:6, "(I) am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before [Or, besides] **Me. Isaiah 45:20, NKJ, "(I) declare things that are right. 21b Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, the Lord? And [there is] no other God besides Me,..." Could we not in that last sentence say "And [there is to be] no other gods besides **Me,..."? That would be comparable to the Deuteronomy passages. 3) I want to speak to this post of yours now. You have expressed to me that the Greek does not deal with capitalization and you have not been interested in capitalization. However, I feel that you are trying to have it both ways as can be seen in your comments here. a) Is 43:10: You have gone with the NIV rather than the NASB, NKJ, or the KJ. "Before me no god was formed," This lower case implies that God is a god. b) Is. 44:6: The verse reads "apart from me there is no God" yet your comment is that it clearly says "apart from God there is no god." "There is no God" and "there is no god" is not the same thing. c) Is. 44:8 "Is there any God besides me?". You see the verse as asking if "there is any god besides God?" "Any God besides me" and "any god besides God" is not saying the same thing. d) Is. 45:14: "God is with you, and there is no other;" Verse 18: "I am the Lord, and there is no other." And yet you go with the NIV for verse 14 where it says that "there is no other god." I can not see why you go with the NIV which again implies that God is a god. e) Is. 45:21 I have already considered by saying that there is to be no other gods before Him. He is the only One able to save. A righteous God and a Savior, there is none other. f) Is 46:5: To whom would you liken (Me), And make Me equal and compare Me, That we [sic] should be alike?" We can not compare God with man; nor can we compare Him with a god, for there is no one like Him. God is not a god. From the heart, Ray |
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3 | For Ray! :-) | 1 Cor 8:5 | Morant61 | 137907 | ||
Greetings Ray! You wrote: " I want to speak to this post of yours now. You have expressed to me that the Greek does not deal with capitalization and you have not been interested in capitalization. However, I feel that you are trying to have it both ways as can be seen in your comments here." As I pointed out to Mike in another post, I am writing in English, so I try to abide by English rules. Many of our problems with this issue could probably be solved if we could post directly in Greek or Hebrew. :-) Allow me to touch upon your points quickly! 1) An important point to remember about the verse is that they are 'so-called' gods, not real. Isaiah makes it clear that people call many things gods, but that they aren't really gods by nature. This is what Paul is refering to when he mentions 'so-called gods'. Yes, there are many things that people call gods, but they aren't really gods. They are just idols. 2) I would go with 'there is no other', not 'there is to be no other'. 3) The NIV is my 'default' translation. I didn't choose it because of how it translated 'God' or 'god'. I almost alway quote from it. 3a) Most of your points from this point are examples of why I haven't gotten too interested in capitalization my friend. Hebrew doesn't capitalize. In this verse, the word is simply 'el'. There is no 'El' in Hebrew! While we debate how we should translate it in English, we are missing the main point - that there is no 'el' or 'elohim' besides our Heavenly Father. There never has been, nor will there ever be! 3b) Here is where we make a mistake trying to force Hebrew to abide by English rules. The word here is 'elohim'. There is no distinction in Hebrew between 'Elohim' and 'elohim'. There is only one 'elohim' - period! So, while we may use either 'god' or 'God' in order to abide by English rules, Hebrew doesn't! 3c) Again, this is an English distinction, not a Hebrew distinction. I have to write it that way in English, but the Hebrew has no such distinction. 3d) Again, default translation! :-) But also again, it doesn't matter since the Hebrew words are not capitalized. Maybe we should just leave all the English words in lower case in our translations so that we don't miss the point of the verses. Finally, you wrote: "We can not compare God with man; nor can we compare Him with a god, for there is no one like Him. God is not a god." Neither is God a 'God'! :-) Scripture never calls Him a 'God'. It calls Him a 'theos', or an 'el', or an 'elohim'. These are all words that we translate as God, but we could just as easily translated them as 'god'. It really wouldn't change the meaning of the original words. So, allow me to simply use the transliterated versions of these verses. Simply put, there is no 'theos', 'el', or 'elohim' other than God! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | For Ray! :-) | 1 Cor 8:5 | Ray | 137948 | ||
Hi Tim, We are pretty much set in our individual interpretations here so...all that is left to do is for me to call you a fool and you to call me a liar. :-) Then we can just go back as we were and join the rest of the forum. :-) I was comparing a couple of verses today and thought I might share them with you. I want us to continue to seek God and to find the one true God. Romans 3:4,..."Rather, let (God) be found true though every man be found a liar, as it is written, "THAT THOU MIGHTEST BE JUSTIFIED IN THY WORDS, AND MIGHTEST PREVAIL WHEN THOU ART JUDGED." Psalm 53:1, "The fool has said in his heart, "There is no [ELOHIM]," They are corrupt, and have committed abodminable injustice; There is no one who does good. 2 God has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men, To see if there is anyone who understands, Who seeks after (God). 3 Every one of them has turned aside; together they have become corrupt; There is no one who does good, not even one." If you can not find any reason to use capitalization and interpret through capitalization, I guess I can't argue it any more with you. Love you brother. From the heart, Ray |
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5 | For Ray! :-) | 1 Cor 8:5 | Morant61 | 137953 | ||
Greetings Ray! Love you too my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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