Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Reconciling Rom 8:39 with Heb 10:26 | Rom 8:39 | kalos | 116609 | ||
Hebrews 6:4 correction [New Creature: Good to hear from you. Thanks for your input. I always enjoy seeing your name and reading your posts. Grace to you. --kalos] Hebrews 6:4-6 (ESV) FOR IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO RESTORE AGAIN TO REPENTANCE THOSE WHO have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, [5] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, [6] if they then FALL AWAY, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. (Emphasis added.) 'For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have (done all these things in Heb. 6:4-5) and then have fallen away...Those who want to make this verse mean that believers can lose salvation will have to admit that it would then also say that one could never get it back again' (MacArthur Study Bible, Word Publishing, 1997). '...it is impossible to restore [them] again to repentance..." ' . . . logically v. 4 implies that if salvation were to be lost, it would be impossible for that person to be born again, lose it, and then be born again again. 'This much is clear: whoever openly and consciously rejects Jesus Christ is unregenerate even if he seemed to have been saved earlier. The Arminian would say he had lost his salvation; the Calvinist that he never had it. Either way, the result is identical' (note at Heb. 6:4ff, NRSV Harper Study Bible). |
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2 | Reconciling Rom 8:39 with Heb 10:26 | Rom 8:39 | Sir Pent | 116615 | ||
Referral to another thread.......................................... There is an excellent post by Tim Moran that gives the best (in my opinion) interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6 passage that you are talking about here, regarding IMPOSSIBLE REPENTANCE. Please type in the number 25332 into the "Quick Search" box at the top right corner of the screen. |
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3 | Reconciling Rom 8:39 with Heb 10:26 | Rom 8:39 | kalos | 116616 | ||
"born again again"? What part of the following do we not understand? Hebrews 6:4-6 You can't have it both ways. 'Those who want to make this verse mean that believers can lose salvation will have to admit that it would then also say that one could never get it back again' (MacArthur Study Bible, Word Publishing, 1997). '...it is impossible to restore [them] again to repentance... ' . . . logically v. 4 implies that if salvation were to be lost, it would be impossible for that person to be born again, lose it, and then be born again again (note at Heb. 6:4ff, NRSV Harper Study Bible). |
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4 | Reconciling Rom 8:39 with Heb 10:26 | Rom 8:39 | Sir Pent | 116618 | ||
Agree to disagree................................................... Hello again Kalos, I am beginning to lose track of who I have interacted with since my return to the forum. But in case you are not one of those yet, I would just like to say that it is good to see you're still here :) As for this discussion, I think that we'll have to agree to disagree. You obviously interpret the verse one way, and have quoted a couple sources that agree with you. I think that Tim Moran's interpretation is more accurate. However, you'll have to hash that out with him. I do not have the language expertise that he has, and could not defend his post nearly as well as it deserves. Read post number 25332 again and take time to think about Morant61's points. |
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5 | Reconciling Rom 8:39 with Heb 10:26 | Rom 8:39 | kalos | 116623 | ||
Sir Pent: It's good to see you active on the forum again. "Agree to disagree" -- I agree with you there. I have the highest regard for the honesty and accuracy of Tim Moran's Answers and Notes. I appreciate you for pointing out his post on this subject. As for hashing it out, I don't have the energy for that. :-) Take care, Grace to you, kalos |
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6 | Reconciling Rom 8:39 with Heb 10:26 | Rom 8:39 | Emmy | 116633 | ||
Romans 8:39 says that no one is able to force you to your saved state. Heb 10:26 Leaves open the option for a person to change his/her own mind. That is one can through his/her actions lose saved state. Angels were not spared if they sinned. If one is saved, he is no more than restored. Being restored does not mean free will no longer applies. It was never true that one could not rebel against God. Angels who have not fallen in the past can still choose to do so. Man fell from grace in the beginning. There was a way made for us to be restored. Being restored does not mean anyhting goes from that time on without a possibility of falling from grace again. If this happens it says in Hebrews we cannot be restored a second time. Simply stated No one else can destroy our restored state of grace, but we have the free will to cancel the restored state by our own actions. take care |
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7 | Reconciling Rom 8:39 with Heb 10:26 | Rom 8:39 | kalos | 116634 | ||
Can we be unsealed? The Bible nowhere even hints that this is possible. You write: "If one is saved, he is no more than restored." Actually, when one is saved there is MUCH MORE to it than merely being "restored". It is helpful to have a proper concept of what God actually does when He saves a soul. 'A. The Issue. Can a true believer ever lose his salvation by sinning, ceasing to believe, or in any other way? 'B. The Proof of Security. The doctrine of eternal security rests on a proper concept of what God actually does when He saves a soul. '1. He loves to the uttermost. '2. He purposes to keep in spite of everything. '3. He intends to present us faultless before Himself. '4. His Son ever lives to make intercession to keep us saved. '5. His Spirit has placed us into the Body of Christ. '6. His Spirit has sealed us until the day of redemption. '7. His Word guarantees that nothing (including ourselves) can separate us from Christ. 'In order to lose one's salvation all of these works of God would have to be undone, and THE BIBLE NOWHERE EVEN HINTS THAT THIS IS POSSIBLE. 'C. The Problem Passages. '1. Hebrews 6:4-6. If this teaches that one can lose his salvation, it also teaches that one can never be saved a second time. '2. John 15:6. Probably refers to the judgment seat of Christ. '3. James 2:14-26. Nonworking faith is not a faith that saves in the first place. '4. 2 Peter 2 and Jude are referring to false teachers, who in Jude's estimation were not true believers (Jude 19; compare Rom. 8:9). '5. Matthew 24:13. End of what? (The Great Tribulation.)' ____________________ (Scripture references for section B.) 1. John 13:1 2. John 10:28-30 3. Jude 24 4. Heb. 7:25; 1 John 2:1 5. 1 Cor. 12:13 6. Eph. 4:30 7. Rom. 8:28-39 (Charles Caldwell Ryrie, The Ryrie Study Bible, Moody Press, 1976, 1978) (Emphasis added.) |
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8 | Reconciling Rom 8:39 with Heb 10:26 | Rom 8:39 | Emmy | 116670 | ||
With all respect. Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of instruction about washings, and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And this we shall do, if God permits. 4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame. Verse 1: Let "US" clearly refers to people being addresses, namely the Hebrews. They are born again, and are encouraged to strive to become mature in understanding and living. They came through repentance and Christ's sacrifice to faith. One who has repented and made alive in Christ through the Spirit should not dwell on these beginning things of faith. Verse 2: Neither should they continually go one about washings, the fact that there is a resurrection, and a judgement. These are basic things. Verse 3: We should instead press on to mature, being skilled in righteousness. Even this only happens if God permits it. He is in full control of this, and we are not. Verse 4: Does not switch to talking about someone else, but these self same people. It is speaking of those who have received the Holy Spirit, who were enlightened by it, tasted heavenly gifts, Verse 5: have known the word of God, and the power of the age to come. This cannot be talking about people who have never been born of the Spirit, since it says they were partakers of it. Verse 6: If after having experienced all of the above, one then falls away, he cannot come to repentance a second time and expect through it to be accepted again though Christ was crucified, because that is like crucifying Him a second time. If people were not able to do this, or if one COULD NOT fall away, this warning is meaningless, and aimed at no one. Here is the logic for that: Unbelievers are not partakers of the Holy Spirit, so it cannot be addressing them. People born of the Spirit who remain in it, are not trying to make use of the sacrifice of Christ a second time. This passage speaks of those trying to come to repentance a SECOND time, and use the sacrifice of Christ a second time. The mere mention of this situation let alone the warning against trying it means the possibility of people trying to do this exists. The only reason one would try to come to repentance again and to make use of the sacrifice a scond time, is that the benefit of the repentance and the sacrifice the first time had worn off. ie that person fell away. He would not have to come to repentance, or try to crucify Christ again for himself. We cannot count on the opinion of others, but only the word of God as it is revealed to us through the Spirit. Holy Spirit is our teacher, and we can trust no other, no matter what their status. Ryrie could be wrong. 1 John 2:27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, "remain in him". If one is open to it, the words "remain in him" say "do not try to leave and expect to come back" To teach that once saved no matter what is not sound or consistant with what has happened to both man and angels alike in the past. I can only say that I cannot convince you of this, but that the whole of the bible can be interpreted with falling away as a possibility without contradiction in any part of it. There might be contradiction between these statements and what others believe, but these statements are not self contradictory to my knowledge, or to any scripture passage that I can think of. Sincerely Emmy and Henry |
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9 | Reconciling Rom 8:39 with Heb 10:26 | Rom 8:39 | kalos | 116683 | ||
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost," Hebrews 6:4 [Emmy and Henry: My sincere thanks to you for taking the time to carefully explain your position. God bless you in your service to Him and your studies in the Word. Grace to you, kalos] "impossible "Hebrews 6:4-8 presents the case of Jewish professed believers who halt short of faith in Christ after advancing to the very threshold of salvation, even "going along with" the Holy Spirit in His work of enlightenment and conviction (John 16:8-10). It is not said that they had faith. This supposed person is like the spies at Kadesh-barnea (Deuteronomy 1:19-26) who saw the land and had the very fruit of it in their hands, and yet turned back. "partakers (Greek - iJlavskomai ," going along with)." Bibliography Information Scofield, C.I. "Scofield Reference Notes on Hebrews 6". "Scofield Reference Notes (1917 Edition)". http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/ScofieldReferenceNotes/ 1917. hebr64 |
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