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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | ordo salutis | Rom 8:31 | cuhigher | 193366 | ||
Thanks Doc, I sure agree. What I meant though, is what does it matter if you believe there are 9 steps or 7 steps to glorification? What does it matter if regeneration is #4 or #5 on your list? How does it affect our relationship and day-to-day walking with the Lord? |
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2 | ordo salutis | Rom 8:31 | DocTrinsograce | 193390 | ||
Dear cuhigher, For me, knowing the ordo salutis provides me with a number of valuable things: (1) It gives me glimpse into the mind of God, increasing my adoration; (2) it enables me to declare the gospel in confidence, knowing that the real work is in His able hands; (3) it reminds me that my job is not entirely a matter of persuasion; (4) it gives me a proper measure by which I can gain assurance; (5) it provides a proper framework from which to apply the important exegetical principle of the analogy of faith; (6) it provides a systematic structure on which to build a solidly Biblical doctrine of soteriology and redemptive history; (7) it provides a useful grid for distinguishing theological error. In Him, Doc PS The above are in no particular order. Furthermore, if I thought about it longer, I'm sure I'd extend that list. :-) |
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3 | ordo salutis | Rom 8:31 | cuhigher | 193422 | ||
Dear Doc, Thanks for the tip re posting follow-up questions. And thank you very much for the thoughtful answers to my questions. I just love how you support everything with Scripture. You are a great resource and blessing to the members of this forum, and to many others I’m sure. Again, I agree whole-heartedly with what you’re saying. I guess I’m just not making my question clear enough… or maybe I’m not thinking clearly myself. But in your original post on this topic, you listed both the Reformed and Arminian versions of the ordo salutis. In Reformed thinking (based on Romans 8:29-30) the ordo salutis is 1) election 2) predestination 3) gospel call 4) inward call 5) regeneration 6) conversion (faith and repentance) 7) justification 8) sanctification 9) glorification In Arminian thinking the ordo salutis is 1) outward call 2) faith/election 3) repentance 4) regeneration 5) justification 6) perseverance 7) glorification I’m wondering why it matters if one believes, for example, that there are 7 steps or 9 steps to glorification? Or why does it matter if regeneration is #4 or #5 on your list, or mine? In other words, how does subscribing to the Reformed view affect one’s relationship and day-to-day walking with the Lord – differently – than if one subscribed to the Arminian view? Maybe it’s a dumb question, but I hope that makes a bit more sense. Thanks. |
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4 | ordo salutis | Rom 8:31 | DocTrinsograce | 193458 | ||
Dear cuhigher, The precise number of benefits in the ordo salutis is a matter of some debate. Some theologians subdivide conversion, for example, as I've indicated in parentheses. Other benefits are sometimes included; adoption, for instance. Furthermore, some of the steps are sometimes thought of in combination; for example, election and predestination. Grouping the steps is helpful in our discussions and deliberations. I'd commend you to the following article, which gives a better comparison of the Calvinist and Arminian order of salvation: http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/article/order-of-salvation Making distinctions between the steps is initially done because the Scripture makes such distinctions. Clearly the Spirit has deemed the distinctions are of value in properly understanding soteriology. Although teaching sound doctrine was once a priority in the church, it is woefully lacking in our day. (Watch on the forum, for example, where people use the terms salvation and regeneration interchangeably. Although regeneration is a component of salvation, salvation itself is much, much more!) The Word of God is immeasurably valuable (Psalm 119:72). We work hard (Proverbs 16:16) to properly grasp the meaning of all of these terms because we understand that value, and we understand that a failure to understand them is ruinous (2 Timothy 2:14). Indeed, a measure of our value as Christian workmen is rightly dividing the Word (2 Timothy 2:15). Consequently, we take care, with the help of the Holy Spirit, to say what God has said (the root of our authority), but no more and no less. Anything contrary to that is a lie (Jeremiah 29:23); anything added is presumptuous and forbidden (Deuteronomy 4:2; Revelation 22:18); anything left out is unloving and sinful (Proverbs 3:27; Deuteronomy 12:32). The doctrines of grace, if properly understood, humbles self, and magnifies God. Some of the most common errors have, at their roots, a misunderstanding of God (theology proper) and/or of man (anthropology). Often the authority, power, holiness, and justice of God is minimized. Meanwhile, man's authority, power, and independence is correspondingly increased, but his sinfulness and need are minimized. Such errors deeply appeal to the fallen human heart (John 3:19; 12:43; Isaiah 30:9-12). To maintain the illusion they must ask "hath God said" (Genesis 3:1; see also post #158836). You might also be interested in the logical order of the decrees of God (see post #150812). In Him, Doc |
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