Results 1 - 8 of 8
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | I am confused | Rom 8:30 | EJJ | 229681 | ||
God has foreordained, determined, predestinated that all men be called to salvation, but only the ones who accept become genuine called ones to be justified and glorified. None are glorified, but those who according to His purpose, meet the terms of the gospel. Who they will be is left up to the individual. All things depend upon meeting the conditions of the gospel. (Jn.3:16, 1Tim.2:4, 2Pet.3:9, Rev. 22:17, Mk.16:16, Acts 2:38, 3:19, Rom.8:1-13,28) | ||||||
2 | I am confused | Rom 8:30 | biblicalman | 229686 | ||
What is made quite clear in Rom 8.29-30, however interpreted, is that the same people who were justified and glorified, were also those who were foreknown and predestinated to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ, and no others. We cannot refer the first half to 'all men' and the second half to 'some men'. That is to ignore the clear meaning of the Greek. Futhermore it is quite apparent that we cannot say all men were predestinated to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ, because it is quite obvious that they were not, unless of course we say that God has failed in His purpose. To predestinate means to determine destiny beforehand. So the meaning of the verses is that those whom God foreknew were the ones who would be saved. The argument between Calvin and Arminius lay in the meaning of foreknew. Does it mean 'discern beforehand' or does it mean 'determine beforehand' (or more strictly 'enter into personal relationship with beforehand'). The Greek (proginosko) would favour the latter. For the former we would expect pro-oida. But however we view the matter we cannot avoid the fact that from the beginning God knows who will be saved. That being so by allowing creation to continue He was predestinating some to be saved and some to be condemned. For had He allowed all men to die in the Flood no one following that time would have existed. They could neither be saved or condemned. Thus by allowing Noah to survive, and not be taken into Heaven like Enoch was, God was determining the destiny of all future mankind. How can I know that I am one of the predestined? By receiving Jesus Christ as my Saviour and LORD. Best wishes |
||||||
3 | I am confused | Rom 8:30 | EJJ | 229688 | ||
The word used for predestined or foreordained is the Greek word proginosko which means to have knowledge before hand, to fore know. God, being the Omniscient being that He is. Does know what each person will do. Just as He foregives all sin, knowing what they are from the beginning of our lives to the end. Just like before we were born He knew what we would look like, the members of our body and the number of hairs on our head. But we do have free will. That He has given. And we make the choice but He does already know what we will do. Proginosko! It is the Holy Spirit of God that draws us to Himself. Without it we do not seek out God. If we have an interest in the things of God. If we are seeking to draw near to God. If we desire to follow Him and do His will and make the choice to do so. We are part of the foreordained. Those He knew would turn to Him. For God so loved the world that whosoever...the word for whosoever is the Greek word Pas meaning individually, each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything, Or collectively, some of all types. To me that pretty much wraps it all up. If you (being part of the whosoever) chose to believe in God, accept Gods plan of salvation, repent of your sin and be led by the Spirit and not the flesh you become part of those He predestined. (had foreknowledge who accept) |
||||||
4 | I am confused | Rom 8:30 | biblicalman | 229690 | ||
The word translated predestined or foreordained is pro-orizo, to lay down or determine beforehand. pro-ginosko is translated as foreknow. ginosko means to know by experience, in contrast with oida which means to know intellectually. Thus God's foreknowledge was not just intellectual but personal. |
||||||
5 | I am confused | Rom 8:30 | EJJ | 229692 | ||
You are correct about the verse in Romans 8 being pro orizo. I was using the verse in I Peter 1: 20. Comparing how Jesus was foreordained before the foundations of the world. In Romans 8: 29 For whom God did have knowledge before hand , God also did decree from eternity those to have the same likeness of Gods Son, that He might exist to be the first among many brethern. 30 More over God did decree from eternity them He also called:.... Who did God call? Jn. 3:16 Whosoever will....Rom.1:16 salvation to everyone that believes... there is that word again pas individual, each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything or collective, some of all types. I interpret that as every individual of every tribes of every nation who believes. This is an age old debate. If we don't have a choice, and it is already decided, then why even try right? It won't matter, it has already been decided. Now that way of thinking is totally against the teaching of the Bible. We can't just go through life making decisions on what we think is best for us and know that regardless if we were predestined we will spend eternity with God. Sounds kinda like the no matter what you do you can't loose your salvation so it doesn't matter what you do. Both I believe are wrong. The way I see it is if God decided which individual COULD be saved and which one COULD not. Then we do not have free will. And He is not in character. Romans 2:11 He is no respector of persons. So also Acts 10:34 A character trait which continues from the OT 2Ch. 19:7. When I take the Bible as a whole I can see it no other way. For God So loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son that who ever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
||||||
6 | I am confused | Rom 8:30 | biblicalman | 229696 | ||
When considering the Scriptures we have to recognise that there are certain veins running through them which might even appear to us, with our limited knowledge to be contradictory, although they are in fact complementary. One of those is God's sovereignty. Another is man's freewill. I prefer not to use human logic when considering the ways of God because if one thing is certain when we use our own logic about God it is that we will be wrong. But even human logic tells me that if man is oorrupt he will never choose to respond to God. Yes He can choose to sin, he can choose options in his life (although usually in accordance with his own predilections and therefore not strictly though freewill), But one thing sinful man would never do without God's grace acting on him is to choose God. And it seems to me that the Scriptures demonstrate this clearly. Consider for example Romans 9.14-24. When the Bible speaks of God calling it makes nonsense of the whole idea if we say that He calls 'whosoever will'. He calls in accordance with His own purpose. There is a specific call and there is a general call. Thus there is a general call, but we must not mix it up with God's specific call in for example Romans 8.29-30. We should of course try to be morally right, and we should do that not because we have a choice, but because it is the right thing to do. And that is so whether God is acting in sovereignty or not. But it is not for us to say that because God is sovereign we are not responsible for what we do. Of course we are. We live our lives on earth as freewill beings. But God help us if He leaves us the victin of our own freewill. On those terms no one will ever be saved. Of course God can decide who will be saved, for it depends on the activity of His undeserved compassion and favour, and through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit (1 Peter 1.2). Do you really think that if God brought Himself home to men as He really is and worked by His Spirit in their hearts they would not come to Him? I know of a number of people who have actually SEEN the risen Christ. I have never heard of one who did not subsequently believe. So what finite men believe about the question is irrelevant. As to 'losing our salvation'. If it is ours we will certainly lose it, But it is not. Salvstion is the work of God from beginning to end. and He has never lost anyone's salvation. 'And this is the will of Him Who sent Me that of all whom He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise them up at the last day' (John 6.39). See also John 10.27-29; 1 Cor 1.7-9; Phil 1.6; 2 Tim 1.12. It is amusing and sad to me how people try to avoid the clear teaching of Scripture just so that they can imprison God in their own logic. |
||||||
7 | I am confused | Rom 8:30 | EJJ | 229713 | ||
Doesn't sound to me you are much confused. Yes I agree you do have to take the Bible as a whole you can not make a doctrine out of one verse. You say without God's grace acting on man he would never choose God. I say without the Holy Spirit drawing man he would never seek after God. And I disagree to a point on your view of man's freewill. The reason some end up in the lake of fire is because of our freewill. Of course God can decide who will be saved. But He chose to give us the choice. He made the way, He set the conditions and the choice is ours. Just as He said to the Israelites, today I set before you life and death, choose life. He gave them the choice. Just as He does to us today. Surely if God would reveal Himself to everyone, they would believe but not necessarily choose to serve Him. We must remember Lucifer and the fallen angels. They do believe in God. They have seen Him face to face. And yet, they chose to rebel. So seeing may be believing but not always making the choice to follow. As to the lose of salvation. I don't think that is a subject we have touched on yet. But I do hope you were not accusing me of avoiding the Holy Scripture so I can imprison God in my own logic. It did appear so. But I am sure I am wrong. |
||||||
8 | I am confused | Rom 8:30 | biblicalman | 229734 | ||
EJJ No I was not referring to you. I was referring to people who speak about 'crawling out of God's hand' as though God had a weak grip (John 10.29). |
||||||