Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Spirit of God or man? | Rom 8:16 | Ray | 8508 | ||
Hi Lace0729, I agree with Mel here as far as capitalization being the key. Before he answered I was going to ask you what version of scripture you use, for I haven't found one that has a lower case spirit for Gal 5:17. In considering it now, I think that because scripture tells us to walk in, by, the Spirit as in verse 16 that the capital S of verse 17 is also correct because the verses tie in together. It is good to test the spirits so that you can apply the scriptures to your life and get to know God better. In a comparison of the two scriptures in this question, I would put together Galatians 5:16 with Romans 8:14. "But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.--"...for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live." In regards to what should be capitalized here, these are my suggestions. (l) I believe that His Spirit dwells in the believer, Rom 8:11. It is because this Spirit is alive in us that we will be given resurrection life because of His righteousness. Thus, I capitalize "the Spirit is alive because of righteousness", Rom 8:10 as is found in the NKJ for instance. (2) I see three lower case spirits in the eighth chapter of Romans. Here I am in agreement with the NASB, Rom 8:15,16; not received a spirit of slavery, have received a spirit of adoption as sons, and testifies with our spirit that we are children of God. Another good comparison is Romans 8:17 and Galatians 4:7; heirs of God and heirs through God. But that's another possible thread. The other thing that I see your question alluding to is the struggle against flesh and blood as seen in Ephesians 6:12. We are not wrestling with the Spirit but "against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places." But if God is for us who can be against us? We have to be led by the Spirit of God. |
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2 | Five words: see also 1 Cor 14:2 | Rom 8:16 | Ray | 114421 | ||
Hi, I have used my pencil eraser since I made this post that I am attaching to here. In the Romans 8:9-16 passage I now choose to put in lower case FIVE words of "spirit" instead of only THREE earlier. I would like some input from the forum concerning this change. I now see these comparisons of Scriptures: Romans 8:16, "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of (God)." Acts 15:7,8, "And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, giving them the *holy *spirit, just as (He) also did to us." Acts 5:32, [as I see it], also see NKJ, "And we are His witnesses of these things; and so is the *holy *spirit, which God has given to those who obey (Him)." Comments and Scriptures, please. From the heart, Ray |
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3 | Five words: see also 1 Cor 14:2 | Rom 8:16 | Tara1 | 114426 | ||
Hi Ray, I have a question for you. You quote Romans 8:16 using a translation that translates outos (itself) as "himself" instead. My King James and the New American Bible, Darby, etc, clearly translate outos as what outos truly should be translated "itself". My question though is; were the King James translators dishonest in transmitting the Word of God? Or were the translators of the translation you used dishonest by using "himself". Fact is, someone was dishonest (perhaps the scribes who merely copied the Greek to Greek) and was trying to promote what wasn't original since we have two opposing lines of thought. Is the Holy Spirit a person and so someone chose to make it appear so by changing outos (itself) to himself? If you are sincerely looking for accuracy then, this is serious study, as this verse originally has absolutely no personification indicators attached. Tara1 |
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4 | Five words: see also 1 Cor 14:2 | Rom 8:16 | Ray | 114452 | ||
Hi Tara1, I am pleased that you are interested and are willing to talk about these things. I'll give you what limitted Greek knowledge I have. My Greek-English Interlinear copies show the word in question as being "auto", Strong's #846, rather than "outos", Strong's #3778. "Autos" can be translated "he, she, or it"; [Himself, herself, itself]. So it would be up to the translator to decide what the context would determine, and a translator would know also the affecting grammar and word endings, etc. For me, I can only go by the context of the passage and the other Scriptures which apply. For me, if one is going to capitalize Spirit as for instance the King James does for John 4:24, "God is a Spirit", then the appropriate pronoun to my mind would be "Spirit Himself" for Romans 8:16. I know that the Spirit can be grieved; that He has a mind and emotions, so I know Him to be a Person. However, I am more open than most perhaps to also see occasions when the Scriptures are talking about a spirit within us that is given by Him and that is not the Person. Romans 8:9 has a "Spirit" in most translations that I now feel should be lower case "spirit". Romans 8:9, "However, you are not in the flesh but in the *spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God/ dwells in you. Romans 8:15, "...but you have received a *spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, 'Abba! Father!/'" The passage of Romans 8:9-16 has five occurances of "spirit" to my mind; these five words can be compared to 1 Corinthians 14:2-16 where five occurances of "spirit" will be found. These to my mind are the "five words" of 1 Cor 14:18,19, "I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all; 19 however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind, that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue." From the heart, Ray |
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5 | Five words: see also 1 Cor 14:2 | Rom 8:16 | Tara1 | 114491 | ||
Hello Ray, You make some interesting comments here and I guess you're right about "auto". Looking in several interlinears, I note some have what yours has and some have "autos". But regardless, it appears that either of these and be translated according to context as "itself or himself". One literal translations says "the very spirit", staying neutral perhaps. Tara1 |
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6 | Five words: see also 1 Cor 14:2 | Rom 8:16 | Ray | 114517 | ||
Hi Tara1, I think that your perception is correct, in that they may have desired to stay neutral by translating "the very spirit". In thinking about the very [same] spirit I thought of the word "same" and then John 1:2 where "The same" is the Greek word "outos". I would think that if we capitalize the "Word" that we would capitalize "this One" in John 1:2. 2) I was also led to consider a comparison/contrast between Romans 8:16 and John 1:12. I don't know the exact mix of the Persons in these comparisons and I wouldn't call them "perfect matches", but it is something to think about. The slashes and parentheses are mine for comparisons. Romans 8:15, "but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father/ ". 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of (God), 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with **Christ,..." Galatians 4:6, "And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit/ of His Son into our hearts, crying, "(Abba!) Father!" 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through **God." All the Jews did not receive Him. John 1:12, "But as many as received Him/, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in (His) name, 13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the **Word became flesh, and dwelt among us..." If we behold *His glory we know that it is the glory that this *One had in the beginning with God. Thanks again for your interest and comments. From the heart, Ray |
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