Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | How is Christ Jesus our Lord? | Rom 1:4 | Ray | 28388 | ||
Is Jesus the holy Spirit? Is Jesus the Spirit of holiness? Or is Jesus the Son of God according to the spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord? | ||||||
2 | How is Christ Jesus our Lord? | Rom 1:4 | Morant61 | 28397 | ||
Greetings Ray! I would say that, based upon the struture of the verse, that the Holy Spirit (Spirit of Holiness) has demonstrated that Jesus is the Son of God by raising Him from the dead. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | How is Christ Jesus our Lord? | Rom 1:4 | Ray | 28506 | ||
Hi Morant 61, You offer still another option that was not in my question. Indeed, that is the literal translation (Spirit of Holiness) that is offered in the Interlinear New Testament put out by Baker books. Literal Translation in the left hand column, Romans 1:4: 4(who was)marked out Son of God in power, according to (the) Spirit of Holiness, by resurrection of (the) dead, Jesus Christ our Lord. But we have a lot of "testing the spirits" here for under the Greek text we have the translation stated thus: 4 marked out Son of God in power, according to (the) Spirit of holiness, by resurrection of (the) dead, Jesus Christ the Lord of us, through whom we received... Also, on the right hand column we have the King James version with yet another reading. Romans 1:4, "And declared (to be) the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection of the dead: By whom we have received..." I don't know which version you have used for your answer, but the NKJ offers yet another "Spirit" for us to consider for verse five. Instead of "through whom" it reads "Through Him we have received..." which refers back to the Spirit of holiness in verse four. So here is option #1 based on NKJ: This Son of God was resurrected by the power of the Spirit of holiness (through Him), and His name (by which we are called) is Jesus Christ. Here is option #1 from the NASB: His Son (who was born according to the flesh) was declared to be the Son of God with power as a result of the resurrection of the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord. Here is the reading of the King James option: "And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection of the dead: By whom we have received..." Summation: So far I see all of these options as equating Jesus Christ our Lord as being the Spirit of holiness or the Holy Spirit. If you don't see this, let me point out that the words "Jesus Christ the Lord of us" in the Greek Interlinear is placed at the end of verse four. The words follow (and remember we have no help in capitalization with the Greek) "ACCORDING TO (THE) SPIRIT OF HOLINESS, BY RESURRECTION OF (THE) DEAD..." The equating of the Holy Spirit with Jesus Christ our Lord is seen most clearly in the rendering of the NASB. Romans 1:4b, "...according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord." I agree with this placement of the words "Jesus Christ out Lord." However, this would I suppose not set well with people who need a physical man on the earth. It would not set well, I suppose, with the person who needs the Persons of the trinity kept divided. I'll leave this now to get the thoughts of the forum before I speak to another option of the NASB. |
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4 | How is Christ Jesus our Lord? | Rom 1:4 | Morant61 | 28510 | ||
Greetings Ray! There are definitely a lot of options! :-) By the way, I was using the UBS Greek text for my translation. However, one point if I may! You said: "I don't know which version you have used for your answer, but the NKJ offers yet another "Spirit" for us to consider for verse five. Instead of "through whom" it reads "Through Him we have received..." which refers back to the Spirit of holiness in verse four." This one is actually very clear in the Greek text. The "through whom" in verse 5 cannot refer to either "spirit" or "of holiness." "Spirit" is neuter in gender. "Of holiness" is feminine in gender. "Through whom" is masculine. Therefore, it must (by rule) refer back to "Jesus Christ" in verse four! Concerning the "Spirit of holiness," I just can't see any way that it refers to Christ (though there are many who hold that view). The reason is that the whole construction is one of agency. The resurrection occured through the agency of the Spirit of Holiness. If Paul had meant to say that Jesus raised Himself, it would have been easy to say. The best option (to me) is that the "Spirit of Holiness" is a reference to the Holy Spirit and that it was the Holy Spirit who raised Jesus from the dead. There is some historical support for this view as well. 1) According to F. F. Bruce, "the Spirit of Holiness" was the regular Hebrew idiom for the Holy Spirit. 2) According to Jewish thought, God's Spirit was the always the active force in resurrection of bodies. Have a Happy New Year! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | How is Christ Jesus our Lord? | Rom 1:4 | Ray | 28526 | ||
Hi Morant61, Thanks, Tim, for your work here. The point about the Greek gender matching with Jesus Christ our Lord would mark the King James and the NKJ as confusing at best. The through Him in those translation would have to go back through the declared Son of God in order to get to Jesus Christ our Lord according to the flesh. In the NASB the "through whom" refers back to the Lord Jesus Christ as per the placement of those words in your UBS Greek. So the version of choice in this passage at least would be my respected NASB. And our own of course.:) Seriously, we all have to decide for ourselves the "interpretation" of the word of God. I do think that if the translators of the NKJ would skip verse four and "refer back" to Jesus Christ our Lord...according to the flesh, then that would have the same meaning as the NASB. In other words, the called ones "received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith" (through Him; through the Man,) Jesus Christ our Lord. Tim, you have written "The resurrection occured through the agency of the Spirit of Holiness." Also, "God's Spirit was always the active force in resurrection of bodies." Are you open to the idea that not only is the Holy Spirit a Person but is also spoken in the Scriptures as a force, an agency, a pledge, a promise, a power as it were? In other words, could it be in Jewish thought that God's spirit was always the active force. That makes more sense to me than "God's Spirit was always the active force (Force). That is similar to the agreement of gender of which you spoke; agreement of capitalization.:) Did I coin a new phrase? I better take a break. Later, Ray |
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6 | How is Christ Jesus our Lord? | Rom 1:4 | Morant61 | 28536 | ||
Greetings Ray! I would agree that the Jews didn't see the Holy Spirit as a member of the Godhead, so they probably would have said it was God's spirit which was active in resurections. :-) Concerning the confusion with the placement of the phrase "through whom," it is common in Greek to place things in very unusual positions. In English, we usually place pronouns close to their antecedents, but this wasn't true in Greek. They relied on gender and number of the pronoun to make it clear which noun was the antecedent. Fortunately, it is usually very easy to determine, but sometimes it can be confusing! :-) I even noticed that the different translations end the sentence at different places. In the Greek, Rom. 1:1-7 is all one sentence. Well, I've got to get ready for work! See ya! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | How is Christ Jesus our Lord? | Rom 1:4 | Ray | 44397 | ||
Hi Tim, My final draft for the verse has "according to the spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,..." Thanks for your help as always. From the heart, Ray |
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