Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Submit to all authority | Rom 13:1 | benjamite | 38982 | ||
I must obey the laws of the land, whichever land I am in. If I am a visitor in a different nation, I also need to remember I represent my homeland - I am a citizen of the U.S.. Let's say I went to Iraq (as a U.S. Marine). Are you saying that I could not kill Hussein if given a direct order by President Bush? Killing Hussein is against the law in Iraq. Isn't it? The truth of the matter is, that when you are invading a country, you don't care what their laws are. If there was some sort of legal problem on foreign soil who do I turn to? If I'm not mistaken, I contact the local U.S. Embassy. In the military, would you contact your CO? Also, if two officers gave you opposing orders, who do you follow? The General takes precedence over a Colonel, the Colonel over a Major, and so on, right? I've never been in the military, but my understanding was that you served your country. (which may have taken many forms - Corporal, Sergeant,...) I would categorize "my representative, senator, governor, and president" as Caesar - one national earthly authority. We don't obey them directly, we obey the laws that they make/sign. I don't care what laws are passed in Parliament. I don't live in the United Kingdom. I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean by "masters of our affections". The principle applies throughout. If I worked for Pepsi, I don't obey the Coke people. If I went to Duke, I wouldn't need to obey the Dean at UCLA. |
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2 | Are you refuting or adding information? | Rom 13:1 | Theopnuestos | 39304 | ||
With regard to Hussein, should it be shown that he is engaged in violence toward the U.S., then the President has every GOD GIVEN right to execute the "power of the sword" to defend the peoples whom God has placed him as a minister to thier good! With regard to structures of authority, and in the reference you made to the military - regardless of the structure, all authority derives it power from one source - God. To obey an order from my Sergeant which he is relaying from my company commander(capt. or major) is to obey my company commander directly, and, by the source of power behind all authority - God. The Sergeant does not posess the power of that order except as that which implied - the power to deliver it in his(commander's) name and expect me to follow it. To obey any LEGITIMATE authority IS to obey God. There is only one true rule - the Law of God. If Hussein is engaged in terrorism, hostilities for unrighteous reasons - he loses the protection of the law - he sets himself outside the law - he is an "outlaw." Masters of our affections is what the passage refers to - In the words of one song, "Who do ya love?" Do I love Christ more and demonstrate it with my obedience or do I love my willfulness more? As far as "order precedence goes" in the Marine Corps - it is the last lawful order given. If the order appears to be a conflicting order, you are granted the opportunity for confirmation and clarification. That is the way a good working authority structure should function. Matt. |
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3 | Are you refuting or adding information? | Rom 13:1 | benjamite | 39307 | ||
Sort of both. Thanks for the info on the Marine Corps. If only all Marines (and other servicemen) would submit to the Law of God. You said that in the Marines, you were responsible to follow the last lawful order given. Why is that? Those who set up the authority structure in the Marines know that you cannot follow two mutually exclusive orders. You cannot serve two masters. It sounds like what you are saying is that really, you were not under many earthly masters (as you said before) but one - the law. Now, it is still the same, you, like your representative, senator, etc., are all under the law of the land. I'm still not sure I'm with you on "masters of our affections". Although Luke 16:13 does mention love, it speaks of service - "you cannot serve two masters". I see this as a general principle. You can't stand at attention and run laps at the same time. When the Marine Corps told you to go overseas, you obeyed the other authorities because the Marine Corps told you to. Had the last lawful order given by a CO been to "attack" you would have done so. Am I right? |
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4 | Are you refuting or adding information? | Rom 13:1 | Theopnuestos | 39388 | ||
"If only all Marines (and other servicemen) would submit to the Law of God." - Amen. "Had the last lawful order given by a CO been to "attack" you would have done so. Am I right?" The short answer, right. ...AND I can follow two orders from two different authorities at the same time so long as they do not conflict. However, once I stepped off the boat, I was under the authority of the Prime Minister of England, The King of Norway, and whatever they have in Germany and Holland(PMs?). If I violated the law I was under the power of that ruler. That of course does not take into account any State Department or Defense Department discussions which may follow. These would be negotiations after the fact. But here is the crux of the issue a I see it - The instruction that "you cannot serve two masters" is the summation of a teaching regarding personal motives - those that are done for personal gratification versus those that are done to please the Father - Christ said that we cannot "serve two masters" at once within the context of teaching about what our heart's attitude should be when - praying in private instead in public to be seen, letting our demeaner go while we fast so that others will know we are fasting, drawing attention to our giving to the poor, the storing up of treasure on earth instead of heaven "for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. " ... "No one can serve two masters - for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth." This is what I mean by "master of our affections." Do we love the attention we get when others see our charitable deeds? Or do we love pleasing the Father who would have us hide our actions from man and give it to Him as a gift of a child's expression of love for his Father? Think about those telethons for charitable organizations. Has it ever struck you why anybody would pay an exhorbitant price to have their named engaved, embossed, cut into stone or what-have-you for the priveledge of being associated with some great charitable or historical event? Vanity! People love to feel good about charitable giving! It is the top reason people give to charities. And the charitable organizations know it. "So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full." "But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal - for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." We obey the civil authorities because we want to obey God - for this is pleasing to Him. The operative words are "we want to." I hope I stayed on thread - it seemed to travel there a bit. I'll have to sign off on this one for now - doing the big move and will be packing up pc's soon! Matt. |
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5 | Are you refuting or adding information? | Rom 13:1 | Morant61 | 39406 | ||
Great comments Matt! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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